Welfare Rancher Builds Problem Fence

[Muledeer4me]

"But "getting out of the way of nature" doesn't fully describe Turner's activities. The ranches are also potent money-makers. Washington Times reporter Audrey Hudson noted last week that Turner frequently hosts big-game hunts on his property at a price of $10,500 per participant. He's drilled for natural gas in New Mexico, and reportedly had bulldozers level off the top ten feet of a ridge on one of his properties to improve his view of a trout pond. He also put an electrified fence around land at his Snowcrest ranch in Montana - precisely the type of fence that the National Wildlife Federation wants to ban.

Still, green groups have not been known to question Turner's conservation practices. Perhaps that's because last year the family philanthropy, the Turner Foundation (Ted Turner, chairman) handed out more than 600 grants worth some $31 million to environmental groups worldwide. Here are some of the largest in 2000:

Alaska Conservation Foundation - $60,000
Center for Health Environment and Justice - $100,000
Defenders of Wildlife - $350,000
Ducks Unlimited/Wetlands America Trust - $125,000
Earthjustice Legal Defense Fund - $75,000
EarthRights International - $40,000
Friends of the Earth - $50,000
Greenpeace - $50,000
National Audubon Society - $50,000
National Wildlife Federation - $500,000
Nature Conservancy - $200,000
National Environmental Trust - $150,000
Natural Resources Defense Council - $150,000
Pew Center On Global Climate Change - $150,000
Sierra Club - $50,000
Trust of Public Land, Southeast - $100,000
There is little doubt that Ted Turner is a savvy businessman. And with an estimated worth at more than $8 billion, his pockets are not only deep enough to reach his 2 million acre goal, but he's also got enough room in there for nearly every green group in the country as well."

 

[1_pointer]

In the area I work I deal with a large landowner of the scale of Ted Turner. Though they are able to do things that others can't always do, it has been a huge plus, IMO, for the local area. First, their property is a source for animals to the surrounding public lands. I know of quite a few bull elk shot just off the property line. Also, beings that they are not as financially strapped as smaller landowners they can experiment without having to worry about going out of business. Once they find what works (for the benefit of livestock and wildlife) this information is passed out to the other landowners. Now these guys know what will work and are in the process of changing their grazing schemes and performing treatments that have been shown to benefit wildlife and their livestock operations. Billionare landowners are good for that. They can lead by example and the smaller operators and federal/state agencies can use that info to make positive changes on an even bigger scale.

 

[Muledeer4me]

More reasons to trust Ted Turner.


"In 1997, businessman and philanthropist Ted Turner made an historic gift of $1 billion in support of UN efforts on global issues. He chose to channel his historic global commitment through the UN because of the UN's vital role as the primary forum for international cooperation recognized by all nations.

The UN Foundation's mission is to support the goals and objectives of the United Nations and its Charter, in order to promote a more peaceful, prosperous and just world - with special emphasis on the UN's work on behalf of economic, social, environmental and humanitarian causes.

The UN Foundation engages in four primary activities in pursuit of its mission:

Grantmaking

Providing additional funding for programs and people served by UN agencies.

Strengthening UN Institutions and Encouraging Support for the UN and UN Causes

Helping to forge new partnerships among and between UN agencies, the private sector and NGOs in order to build support for the UN and its efforts while also enhancing the effectiveness of service delivery.

Telling the Story

In cooperation with the Foundation's sister organization, the Better World Fund, sponsoring or conducting outreach efforts aimed at educating the public about the UN's unique role in addressing global issues and forging international cooperation.

Raising New Funds to Support UN Programs and Purposes

Encouraging other public and private funders to join and help demonstrate what the UN and the world can do when the public and private sectors cooperate and co-invest."

 

[BigHornRam]

Pointer,

I don't mind if folks like Ted share information gained from their experimental practices.

What I do mind is when they tell everyone else how they need to conduct their business. Like religious zealots who are not happy unless everyone else around them shares their faith, if you don't convert to Tedism, your just another moron.

See the rub here?

Paul

 

[BuzzH]

Paul,

Do you really think Tedism is sweeping the West?

If so, some examples please.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

Tedism is not sweeping the west, but it is growing by leaps and bounds in the citified, turon, one week a year back to nature crowd. I can't tell you how many magazine articles I've read that boast about the great Ted Turner and how he manages his properties. How other western land owners had better follow his lead if they want to continue to make a living from their land. Funny thing is, is that all these articles are published in magazines owned by Ted's company. What an ego! Think there's any chance of "fair and balanced" journalism here?

Check out some of the anti-hunting outfits Ted has donated money to. Doesn't this bother you just a little bit?

Paul

 

[1_pointer]

Paul- I see the rub, I live in UT and am not a member of 'the church'. Just like anything, these smaller guys need to use the information that is pertinent and pass off the rest. I think there's some real good stuff they could learn from these types.

 

[BuzzH]

Paul,

Take a look at some of the pro-hunting outfits he donates money to, that doesnt mean anything to you?

125K to DU for example? They on your anti-hunting list?

Yeah, there are a few of the groups listed that bother me as a hunter, but not as a conservationist. The tragic thing is that there arent many options for donating money to organizations that are 100% pro-hunting, 100% pro-habitat, 100% pro-endangered species, etc. etc. etc.

Just like everything discussed here, you have to support groups for different reasons. I donate money to groups that arent necessarily pro-hunting, but they are pro-habitat. The good out-weighs the bad.

As far as Ted and his articles, well, its hard to deny that he doesnt do good things on his ranches. The habitat and the wildlife are in great shape on all his holdings, I cant find much to bitch about with that. I wish my public lands were in half the condition of Teds land. I dont find anything wrong with his management practices on his ranches. On the land he owns and in his position, it works great. Of course it wont work for everyone, and it may not work for anyone else, but it does work for the wildlife and TEI. Its also pretty impressive to see the potential of what we have in both habitat and wildlife when it isnt over-grazed and managed properly.

Despite your sour-assed attitude toward Ted, TEI has done a lot of positive things for wildlife, for wildlife habitat, and also has done a good job of creating conservation easments and keeping the land intact rather than sub-divided and paved. There are much, much, much worse things to do to the land than what TEI does, and thats a fact.

 

[1_pointer]

I'm wondering if TEI is the model for the 'new cowboy'? It's my idea that anyone can still be a rancher, even this day and age. However, being able to brand and ride a horse are now not the prime requisites. One may have to take a round-about way to get there, which may include doing something else to have the capital to be very flexible.

IMO, one good thing about these billionare landowners is that they are much less likely to subdivide their holdings than someone whose profit margin is much thinner/smaller.

 

[JoseCuervo]

1_Ptr,

There is not a bank in the world that would loan somebody money to start ranching. And unless you inherit it, the price of most ranch land can't be paid by earning the money from working it, at any kind of scale.

Even if land was free, it would be a struggle to get an operating line to buy cattle and equipment. Most guys now need a job "in town" or they end up just riding for one of the "corporate" ranches.

 

[1_pointer]

One may have to take a round-about way to get there, which may include doing something else to have the capital to be very flexible.

'Gunner- Did you miss this part? One doesn't need an operating line of credit if you have the money. I'm not sure guys like Ted need one. That's my point. You may have to become a telecommunications mogul, a plastic surgeon, or a lawyer who saves there pennies till you have lots of them, then become a rancher. It's also a scale issue. Some would consider themselves a rancher if they ran 100 head while others want 10,000 head. BTW, there is somewhat of an experiment going on at Utah State. A couple of the professors and extension specialist went in together and bought a ranch. It'll be interesting if they can run it as well as they can teach about running it.

 

[BigHornRam]

I attended a presentation by Jack Jr. on this issue this weekend. Lot's of pictures of dead elk, deer, and a moose calf hung up in the fence. This illegal fence and others like it, are a problem that will be addressed.

 

[1_pointer]

Good to hear it'll be fixed.

 

[BigHornRam]

Pointer,

I didn't say it would be fixed, I said addressed. I hope it can be fixed. Turner's ranch manager already achnowledges there's a problem with this fence and it will be corrected when "funds are available". The problem is that the land managers such as the BLM, State, and F. S. will not enforce the law. Many others are building similar fences in Montana as well as Ted. FNAWS was even hesitant to print the article. They said "you know Ted's a big donor". It will not be an easy battle to win. Look at Buzz, the Champion of wildlife. But when Ted's involved, he gives him a free pass. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Does to me....
Those with the $$$ can get away with most any thing when they grease the right palms....

 

[BuzzH]

If that statement were true...Ted would still have fish feeders on the Ruby River.

BHR, you have any links to the BLM, FS, or State that defines exactly what an illegal fence is?

How about on private property? What constitutes an illegal fence?