Very Good Opinion Piece Reguarding MT N. F.

BigHornRam

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Accord could be crucial fork in the trail - Sunday, May 28, 2006

SUMMARY: Collaborative approach promising constructive change on the Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest deserves your attention.

It's been about a month since several timber companies and environmental groups joined in proposing an almost revolutionary plan for managing Montana's largest national forest, the Beaverhead-Deerlodge. Stepping outside the familiar conflict-filled forest planning arena, loggers and fishermen and hunters and wilderness advocates discovered through informal collaboration huge areas of common ground. Their proposal for forest management would protect and improve fish and wildlife habitat; protect forever as wilderness more than half a million acres added to existing designated wilderness; make steady progress toward restoring healthier, more natural forest conditions; provide better long-term protection from catastrophic wildfire; and, at the same time, provide sawmills with a dependable and larger supply of timber.

Parties to the proposal include five wood products companies, the National Wildlife Federation, Trout Unlimited and the Montana Wilderness Association. What they came up with through months of negotiation is what they call a “Partnership Strategy.” It calls for using an innovative approach, replacing piecemeal timber sales and forest projects with more holistic management of large tracts. It would make greater use of so-called “stewardship contracts,” in which companies could obtain timber in exchange for thinning, improving watersheds, reclaiming old and eroding forest roads and other beneficial work. This approach effectively plows back into the land and local communities much of the value reaped through logging. As an alternative to sending timber-sale dollars into the black hole of the U.S. Treasury, only to defer needed conservation measures for want of congressional appropriations, stewardship contracts have great appeal. The Partnership Strategy sets no exact timber-harvest quotas but designates 713,000 acres of the 3.3-million-acre forest as suitable for logging. Another 573,000 acres would be recommended to Congress for addition to the wilderness system. It's an elegant compromise. The fact that these parties, scarred veterans of many past public land skirmishes, see eye-to-eye on ways to better manage a forest is reason enough for excitement.

Their plan, however, has been greeted by a remarkable and resounding silence.

Oh, it's attracted attention in some small circles. Some of the more zealous environmentalists oppose it, in good measure because it involves logging, including along the fringe of a few roadless areas. Some off-road vehicle enthusiasts object because the plans resource-protection provisions include limitations on where four-wheelers are allowed to tear up the hillsides. Some local politicians recoil from it because it includes expansion of areas permanently protected as wilderness, which they oppose no matter what other benefits come in return. And even within the Forest Service, this grand compromise has detractors. They say the proposal arises too late to incorporate in their planning process, which is well under way. As if overcoming agency inertia weren't hard enough, the plan also suffers from the Forest Service's NIH Syndrome - “not invented here.” It's just human nature, but there's an institutional resistance to ideas not originating within the meeting rooms of the Forest Service. Also, having at some point swapped the motto “Land of Many Uses” for “All Things to All People” - a fool's errand - key Forest Service officials reflexively shun a proposal coming from some but not all groups representing forest users.

Publicly, however, there's been almost no discussion, much less expressed enthusiasm for the Beaverhead-Deerlodge Partnership Strategy. Those who joined in this collaborative effort have had little luck rallying support, even among leading politicians and opinion leaders who might generally be expected to embrace, at least conceptually, anything that substitutes better stewardship for the bitter stalemate that dominates forest management.

Debate over the future of our public forests tends to revolve around opposition. An entire industry of associations and nonprofit organizations exists to oppose what's been done in the past, what's being done now or what land-management agencies might do in the future. Listen carefully, and you'll hear a lot more of what people don't want from their forests than what they do want. And even among the affirmative arguments for this or that, the narrow focus of so many forest-user groups promotes advocacy of single, seemingly mutually exclusive interests. So much of the battle over forest management is fought by proxy, with a few dozen industry and organization spokesmen doing the talking for large constituencies, that the public winds up playing the role of spectator, not participant, even though it's the public's lands and resources they're talking about.

Are we so accustomed and content to view our national forests as battlegrounds for intractable conflicts that we can't recognize the path toward peace and prosperity when we see it? We've studied the Partnership Strategy and talked to some of its architects and their critics. The worst that can be said about the proposal is that it may not be perfect. Some people might prefer more of something and less of another. Overall, though, it represents exactly the kind of forest management most people say they want, yielding productive, healthy forests with all of the qualities that we value - among them, clean water and air, wild places, accessible places, wildlife, healthy fisheries and useful wood products. This plan, with its emphasis on stewardship contracting on a large scale, suggests the possibility of a seismic shift in forest management - one that helps replace today's “analysis paralysis” with constructive change.

There's ample room for disagreement, of course. Perhaps the balance of the compromise won't satisfy public expectations. Maybe there's some fatal flaw someone will discover. Maybe a competing idea will emerge and prove superior. But if this plan dies, let's hope it's on the merits of its well-understood substance. It should not be left to wither by an entrenched forest Opposition Industry, an inertia-driven government bureaucracy, elected practitioners of political polarization and an overly complacent public.
 
The concept is good, but the "compromise" is once again lop-sided, heavily favoring extractive uses.

The amount of area that is going to be put into wilderness was already recognized and was classified as potential wilderness under RARE II back in the '60's. So, big deal, another 537,000 acres of rock and ice that the timber industry, atv freaks, and cow-pokes dont want for extractive uses will be wilderness. Never mind that under the Forest Plans of both the Beaverhead and the Deerlodge, those lands were/are already being managed as de-facto wilderness.

Now, though, the timber industry is going to gain access to 713,000 acres. Thats a 3-2 ratio...not exactly a "compromise". On top of that, the most productive lands are not being included in Wilderness...the most productive lands are being opened up to logging.

This plan is nothing more than smoke-and-mirrors and another way to open up more roadless country...some of the most productive country...to logging. Of course the age-old excuses are running rampant...decrease fire danger, we're compromising, etc. etc. etc.

Pure BS and another lie.

Anyone with one firing brain cell can look at a map and see that the FS has done a wonderful job of designating unproductive rock and ice into wilderness.

Thats not compromise. Compromise is when you take productive lands out of use for logging and into wilderness. Funny how that's never mentioned whenever the logging industry, oil industry, welfare ranchers, etc. want to "compromise".

This BS "new" plan is nothing but a land grab for the loggers and gains wilderness advocates nothing.

I hope this thing is shot down and dies a quick death.
 
Buzz,

You must of missed this part......

"Parties to the proposal include five wood products companies, the National Wildlife Federation, Trout Unlimited and the Montana Wilderness Association."

The last 3 parties to this compromise are not exactly extraction advocates. And as for the the logging aspect 713,000 of 3.3 million acres available for timber harvest is not an unreasonable amount. Less than 22% of the land. And how much of that acreage was already managed for timber production?
 
I didnt miss that, I just dont agree with the "compromise".

My stance is forget about the 560,000 acres thats already de-facto wilderness. That wont be opened to logging and is secure enough under the Forest Plans. The wilderness groups are a bunch of idiots...they're fighting for land thats already off limits to logging...its just not officially titled "wilderness". They've already won that battle, let the "compromise" happen on the more valuable timber lands.

The compromising should be a on the 3.3 million acres that are open to logging...and in particular the 713,000 that are being opened to logging in this plan. I think its about time the timber industry do some compromising...I've already compromised too much.

The wilderness advocates are spineless, they need to take lessons from the ranchers, outfitters, oil industry, timber industry, etc...go for the throat and dont compromise anything without gaining 2 acres of wilderness for every 1 acre thats used for extractive uses.

Time to level the playing field...
 
I would assume from your history Buzz, any extraction is bad extraction, or at least a token amount of extraction is all that is necessary.

I would bet there are those who are so one sided in their thinking as the article states who believe any thing that doesn't fit into their single minded personal agenda for what they want to see would be bad.

As I have brought up many times before, I would bet you use each and every part of any facet of the extraction industries, and your only one small cog in the close to 300,000,000 people in this country who do the same.

What amazes me is the fact of how many people in this country who think on such a small scale in every thing they do, then wonder/complain when prices go up due to supply and demand.

Forest lands were set aside so that we would ensure enough resources for this country, and so people could recreate in.

Wilderness areas were set aside only for people to play in.

It should make you happy there are areas which would be designated as new wilderness and off limits to the might buzz saw and tractor.

However, we know, it doesn't turn all the FS ground into "Wilderness" so this would make you unhappy.

I am sure there is no part of this plan that is a panacea for any one person, life’s just tough some times that way.

The biggest issue here isn’t the fact this plan is good or bad, it is the populace/politicians/people who count for this to go into effect are to lethargic and couldn’t give a rats hooey if any or all of it just melts back into the seams of oblivion.

Bottom line boils down to this...

No one seems to care any more, or their to burned out on the constant drum beating that now they believe this is just another "Crying Wolf" effort of some environmental group with a dead end agenda.

It sucks some times when the squeaky wheel finally falls off because grease wasn't the problem to the fix...
 
Buzz,

Your wrong. Without Wilderness designation and protection, if wood products, or oil, or minerals.... ect ect...become valuable enough to the masses in the future, the extraction will take place there as well. Some people get it. This is a good chance to protect some key places from development,. Take it.

BTW how much of the 713,000 acres is already open to logging? Ninety percent or more if you discount the tree huggers stop all logging sales suits? Is that how guy's like you like to manage the forest? With lawsuits, lawyers and special interest agendas? No wonder why the Forest Circus is a fugged up mess.
 
This has now officially become the dumbest statement I've ever read...

Elkcheese said, "Wilderness areas were set aside only for people to play in."

Anyone that would believe that, definately doesnt understand ecosytem management, science, or forest management.

Unbelieveably stupid statement. Its actually tough to imagine someone being that clueless, it really is.

BHR,

You're wrong again. The NFMA and the Forest Plans are a very binding contract. So were the RARE and RARE II designations.

They wont be logged...and if they are...wilderness will be afforded very little protection at that point as well. If the U.S. is in a bind for timber to the point of breaking the NFMA and the Forest Plans...wilderness will be logged too.

Designate as much as possible into wilderness and let the extractive users compromise their piece of the pie for a change.

Thats the one downfall of the Wilderness advocates...they play too nice.
 
"Thats the one downfall of the Wilderness advocates...they play too nice."

That statement is dumber than Elkcheese's Buzz.

Here's one good current example involving an area not too "full of Bastards", the proposed ski hill on Lolo Peak. Do you think this proposal would even be a consideration if the Forest Service land in question was indeed Wilderness?

As it is, there is more than a slim chance that the ski hill on F. S. land will go forward. A lot of the ultra liberal, bash Bush, Air America koolaid gulping, RML employee's like to down hill ski and are in favor of it.
 
BHR,

Maclay is pissing in the wind...I'll bet you another case of beer that thing will never happen. I'd say less than 1% chance.

The FS is busting his chops around every corner...so are the Missoula hippies.

Oh, and as for my statement being dumber than cheese's not even close.

Study up on the wilderness act and you'll soon find the Wilderness Adocates have been, way, way, way too willing to "compromise".

They had support, both from the politicians and the public, to get eveything they wanted in the 60's...and they played nice and "compromised" themselves and the wilderness bill down to about 60% of what they wanted. Dumb move.
 
Buzz,

Weren't you the one that said the public would win reguarding Mitchell Slough? What kind of odds will you give me on the appeal? Proof again that money talks.

I'll take your 1 to 100 odds on the ski hill development. I'd say the odds would be closer to 25% of it happening. Still bad odds for Maclay but it could happen.
 
"Very good opinion piece"? Are you serious BHR? What's good about it?

Funny how this so-called collaborative approach leaves out the recreation community completely. What a bunch of BS. Did these clowns not read the DEIS, specifically that the comment deadline was October 31, 2005? They're only about 6 months too late. The FS should tell the collaborators to FO; otherwise the forest planning process would be never-ending and nothing would get accomplished.

The amount of area that is going to be put into wilderness was already recognized and was classified as potential wilderness under RARE II back in the '60's.
Wasn't RARE II implemented in 1977 and completed in 1979 Buzz? There are currently about 174,000 acres of RWA in the BDNF, not 573,000 acres. How was 573,000 acres identified back in the 60's under RARE II and where did it go?

Talk about greedy, the timber industry currently has access to 676,000 acres. The prefered alternative of the DEIS trims this to 216,000 acres after removing appropriate areas from the suitability inventory. None of it will include the 1.9 million acres of IRA's. Here, I agree with you in that these areas should be off limits to extractive industries for the sole reason of protecting wildlife and stream habitat.

You are also right in saying the athe timber industry and the wilderness zealots are idiots. My take on this whole thing is two-fold. First, the timber industry saw how badly they were getting screwed in the DEIS. Next, a new forest supervisor was hired in October who has a background that relates to extractive uses. The timber industry saw this as an opportunity to get theirs and rub with the crunchies at the same time...i.e., good PR. Too bad they are the last to figure out that the tree-huggers have already shot their load and have a fraction of the clout they had 20 years ago.

Oh, to repeat one last thing - the comment deadline was October 31, 2005 idiots.
 
Ahhh... Butz the Putz with no Nutz still wants to be an ass hole and not play nice, I guess the niceties are off again

For shame for shame Butz.... :D

The biggest problem here is that the environmental hippy zelots, which Butz is a member of, don't think they need to produce any compromises, while every one else in the world need to bend over and take it in the back end to the wishes and whims of these said peoples feelings.

Emotional outbursts don't buy as much as it used to which is a good thing, only time will play out to see who gets the bigger slice of this pie in this game...
 
"only time will play out to see who gets the bigger slice of this pie in this game..."

As long as it's not a bunch of asswhipe lawyers, I don't care who gets the biggest slice.
 
Here is how the Beaverhead County Commission feels about this BS.

Beaverhead County Commissioners
2 South Pacific Street, Cl. #4
Dillon, Montana 59725-4000
Phone: (406)683-3750 Fax: (406)683-3769
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


May 1, 2006

Ecosystem Research Group
121 Hickory Street
Missoula, MT 59801

Sun Mountain Lumber
P.O. Box 389
Deer Lodge, MT 59722-0389

Montana Wilderness Association
P.O. Box 635
Helena, MT 59624-0635

RE: Partnership Strategy for the Beaverhead-Deerlodge Forest Plan Revision

Dear Partnership Members:

We appreciate your providing us with the Partnership Strategy for the Beaverhead-
Deerlodge Forest Plant Revision document and your Power Point presentation
associated with the Alternative you have developed. We also appreciate Sherm and
Tony meeting with us prior to the distribution of your document. We applaud all your
hard work and the collaboration between the timber industry members and the
selected environmental groups represented by the "Partnership".

You ask us for feedback on your Alternative. After our review of your
document and post presentation by your group, we cannot and will not
support this "Partnership" Alternative as the Preferred Alternative to the
Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest Land and Resource Management Plan.

Beaverhead County recognized its desire for local governments’ input during the
revision process and entered into a Memorandum of Understanding with the USFS
that allowed us to participate as a Cooperating Agency during the revision as early
as 2002. Beaverhead County, along with Madison County as cooperators, funded a
position for a county representative on the Forest Service Interdisciplinary Team.

Our purpose in participating in the process as a cooperator and/or member of the
Forest ID Team was to bring to the planning process the County’s unique expertise
and perspective to help formulate a Revised Forest Plan based on our two
paramount goals; community and ecosystem sustainability. In addition we hoped to
incubate and generate further participation by residents of Beaverhead and Madison
Counties through public hearings, information dissemination, and availability of the
Commissioners.

Your "Partnership" has completely left us, and all the other affected Counties as far
as we can tell, out of the formulation, planning, or negotiations that ultimately
resulted in your "Partnership" Alternative. At least twice now we have
communicated to members of the "Partnership" that this Alternative does not
effectively represent Beaverhead County’s concerns, issues, or desires for content
in the Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest Land and Resource Management
Plan. Our feedback to you has not been reflected in the content of your Alternative,
so we can only assume that our concerns are not going to be considered by the
"Partnership".

By your own admission no motorized recreation advocates or enthusiasts were part
of your "Partnership" either. We contend that the Commissioners could have been
an excellent resource for you to address that particular issue. Thus, we believe your
"Partnership" is non-inclusive and has left many interests out of the development of
the document and resulting strategy for management of the public lands involved.
We will tell you again, one of the biggest concerns for Beaverhead County is
accessing the full spectrum of public lands for recreation opportunities that includes
BOTH motorized and non-motorized enthusiasts in summer and winter.

We have additional problems with the "Partnership" Alternative. For example, using
sage grouse as a Management Indicator Species and the potential negative impacts
on Beaverhead County’s agricultural community with consequences to grazing on
the Forest. Philosophically and literally Beaverhead County is unsure if the
Management Indicator Species paradigm is a management strategy that works.

Ultimately, we have concluded that the "Partnership" Alternative only represents
essentially two somewhat narrow special interests for the Beaverhead-Deerlodge
National Forest Land and Resource Management Plan. Beaverhead County, and
again as far as we can tell all the other affected Counties, plus many other interests
and multiple use categories are either ignored or discounted.

Currently the Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest is in the process of analyzing
public comment on their Draft Environmental Impact Statement and their Draft Land
and Resource Management Plan. We are hopeful that Beaverhead County’s
comments, as well as comments from our County residents, on those drafts will help
provide the kind of substance to guide changes in the draft for a Preferred
Alternative that addresses our concerns. If you read our comments to the draft you
will see that Beaverhead County fully supports the timber industry as well as
environmental concerns. However, we also recognize that there are other users and
multiple use interests beyond timber and wilderness that need to be represented in
the management of the Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest.

We fully support stewardship contracts and dedicated restoration funding that result
from those contracts. Of course that strategy for projects on the Forest is available
now in the current plan and is not dependent on the "Partnership" Alternative to be
part of ongoing management tools.

Mr. France asked if the Commissioners thought the current Preferred Alternative met
the County’s needs. After comparing the "Partnership" Alternative with the Draft
Preferred Alternative, we would have to say that, although we would like to see
changes, the current Preferred Alternative meets the needs of the County to a
greater extent than the "Partnership" Alternative.

Therefore, at the risk of our being redundant, the Beaverhead County
Commissioners cannot and will not support this "Partnership" Alternative

Sincerely,

Garth L. Haugland
Commissioner

Michael J. McGinley
Commissioner

C. Thomas Rice
Commissioner


c: Honorable Conrad Burns
Honorable Max Baucus
Honorable Dennis Rehberg
Governor Bryan Schweitzer
Region Forest Supervisor Gail Kimble
Forest Supervisor Bruce Ramsay
State Senator Bill Tash
State Representative Debby Barrett
State Representative Diane Rice
Anaconda-Deer Lodge County Commissioners
Broadwater County Commissioners
Butte-Silver Bow County Commissioners
Granite County Commissioners
Jefferson County Commissioners
Madison County Commissioners
Powell County Commissioners
Southwestern Montana Stockman’s Association – Patty Rowland & Jeff Johnson
Farm Bureau – Jules and Bonnie Marchesseault
Beaverhead Snowriders - Ken Heberling
Jackpine Savages Snowmobilers - Nick Jensen
Big Hole Snowmobilers - M.D. Peterson
Beaverhead Outdoor Association - Gene Loder
Jim Hagenbarth
Clint Rouse
 
Sounds to me like the Beaverhead snowmobile community carries some weight in that county and opposes any new Wilderness designation in the area. Are you anti-wilderness Hangar? I like to back country snowmobile, but I also think we should designate more places as Wilderness. I'm not anti-resource extraction like Buzz is. I think we can do it right, in places where it makes sense. That was the spirit of the article I posted. Getting all the special interests to agree on what reasonable multiple use is on public land is a pipe dream appearently.
 
Are you anti-wilderness Hangar?
Anti New wilderness, not anti-wilderness. 106 million acres is enough IMO. With around 5% of forest visits being wilderness visists, it seems the "need" is not there. There are alternative options in keeping land in pristine condition, as evidenced by the number of wilderness bills in DC right now 40 years after the wilderness act.

The snowmobiling community was left out of the "Partnership", that's partially why they were copied. Snowmobilers stood to lose a fair amount of riding area in the BDNF DEIS that was released last summer, and got involved. This is simply part of that involvement. USFS Region 1 has an unwritten policy (which they deny but still implement) of closing all RWA to snowmobiling rather than practicing what Region 4 does by adhering to the policy of the NFS.
 
Great come back Butz the Putz with no Nutz.... :rolleyes: tsk... tsk...

It would be great if all these factions could get together, even for a brief moment and get some thing done, but some times it's a good thing when they don't, then issues aren't written in stone and every thing stays pretty much as is and works for those utilizing the areas
 
I hear you Hangar. I would not want to compromise with new National Parks if it ment that hunting within them would be seriously reduced or eliminated. That being said, it's hard to get a seat at the table when your position is in stone.

Packed out some snowmobile parts during a Beaverhead roadless area hike this weekend. Noticed a lot of sled marks in the mud as well. Some guy's must tear up a lot of equiptment trying to get a few more weeks out of the season!
 
BHR - Where exactly did you find those parts, and what parts did you find? I would love to have some pics of that and send them out to my buds in MT. If you have some pics, drop me an email - hangar18 at cableone dot net
 
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