Velocity Observations: First v Second Shot…

[Robert N]

I had a chance to escape for a rare Monday Morning at the Range today…given the options in front of me it seemed like a better choice than swapping out a bunch of wall sconces for my Beloved.

Rifle: CVA Accura MR-X.
Load: 295gr. Power belt over 2x 777 pellets.

First shot (clean barrel): 1446 fps.
Second shot (did not clean): 1545 fps.

hmmm…I did a decent field cleaning on the rifle (4x windex patches, 2x dry patches, pinned the breech) and set up again.

First shot (*clean): 1448.7
Second Shot: 1547

Three more 2-pellet shots: 1449, 1455, 1446.

I also fired a few shots of 80gr. Of 777 loose powder (*by weight). Velocity with the same 295gr. PowerBelt was 1754 fps. That shot was 4.5” higher than the 2 pellet load. Recoil was more pronounced as was the noise.

Observations: pretty much 100 fps difference between a clean barrel vs. a one-shot fouled barrel. The second shot also printed 1.5” higher than the first. Which is interesting as all of this explains why I thought my ‘23 deer was shot much higher in the shoulder than my aiming point.

Sadly, I made it home in time to install the sconces…so, didn’t get to dodge that honeydew!

 

[Gellar]

Fascinating information

 

[Treeshark]

That is interesting info, Robert- how do you think you’ll proceed forward with hunting?

I would think starting the hunt with a twice-shot barrel would be the most consistent, but not sure if that’s a good idea with 777 or not (I shoot Blackhorn so don’t have experience with it).

 

[Robert N]

That is interesting info, Robert- how do you think you’ll proceed forward with hunting?

I would think starting the hunt with a twice-shot barrel would be the most consistent, but not sure if that’s a good idea with 777 or not (I shoot Blackhorn so don’t have experience with it).

Right, that’s the big question, isn’t it? I wasn’t able to source any Blackhorn (and those prices!) this year and ended up with classic 777.

As I understand it, it’s generally unhealthy to leave a muzzy dirty. Even with my rifle being stainless, I thought it best to just keep a proper cleaning regimen. Having said that, with my regular rifles (257 Roberts, 7mm’s..308…even my 375 H&H) are all well shot in and only get cleaned once a season (or every 50 rounds or so).

What I haven’t determined yet is whether or not my muzzy shoots better fouled or clean. More reasons to spend more range time for sure.

PS: forgot to add…last year I started muzzy season with a perfectly clean rifle. Off a cold, clean bore, the Accura MR-X groups 2” with those 295 power belts…plenty good for deer out to 150 yards…and in my case, a long shot is 50 yards with my tree density.

I suspect, unless I prove otherwise, I’ll start with a 100% clean rifle again. Probably 2x 777 Pellets (that kind of powder/velocity consistency is really amazing) and maybe a different bullet - I have both .45 cal 250 FTX and 300 XTP’s in Sabots to test fire. If I get some cloverleafs I’ll probably call it good at 1450 fps….

 

[Nick87]

Interesting.

 

[F250]

I know Blackhorn is expensive and scarce, but I wonder how it would perform in the same type of experiment.

 

[Nick87]

I know Blackhorn is expensive and scarce, but I wonder how it would perform in the same type of experiment.

Was wondering the same, never knew how much I hated the pellets until I tried blackhorn.

 

[cgasner1]

I’ve only shot 777 but we have been killing elk with it over well over 10 years. Rule 1 never hunt a clean barrel I usually dump about 60 grains down the pipe and push a ranch on top of it to kinda pack it and torch that off then hunt the gun

 

[howl]

It appears there is more to this site than bots, dogs fights and unfortunate double entendres.

 

[shannerdrake]

I’ve observed similar jump with 777 and Pyrodex. Not so much with BH209.

My guess has always been that the fouling from the first shot creates a tighter fit and increases pressure/velocity.

 

[perma]

@Addicting

 

[Knight.54]

Fouling shot.

#huntdirty

My muzzleloader never goes hunting without a fouling shot or two. My accuracy is peak at shots 2 through 8 ish… then it begins to degrade. Mostly shoot 777.

 

[cgasner1]

About 12 years ago on a fouled out barrel

 

[Addicting]

What is your cleaning process for that first shot?

 

[Robert N]

Right, got out to the range yesterday to do some more shooting, this time with a new bullet: .45 cal Hornady XTP 300 in a sabot.

Same Rifle: CVA MR-X

2x 777 Pellets, 300gr. XTP: 4 shots, all on clean barrel: 1574, 1555, 1564, 1567
Average: 1565.1
Spread: 18.7
STD Dev: 6.7

Group: 2x two shot groups on a clean barrel…First group was side by side, maybe 2/3”. Second group was 1”.

Observations:
Firstly, the XTP/Sabot was much snugger going down a clean barrel. Purely subjective, but it felt like it was the same or slightly more resistance than the 295 P-Belt going down a fouled barrel.

Secondly, the XTP velocity was just over 100fps faster than the fouled barrel 295-PBelt loads. This follows with the pressure needed to shove the bullet down the barrel.

I would have fired a few loose powder shots but it was so windy out that dumping the loose powder resulted in half of it being blown all over the place and another cleanup.

I’ll get back out hopefully Friday and do another test with the XTP’s. Regardless, if the 777 pellets deliver the 1” accuracy with the XTP’s and the velocity stays at 1550 or so, I see no real reason to change that up for deer hunting purposes. The pellets are super easy to use - there’s a benefit to that in the field.

 

[JDH]

Fouling shot.

#huntdirty

My muzzleloader never goes hunting without a fouling shot or two. My accuracy is peak at shots 2 through 8 ish… then it begins to degrade. Mostly shoot 777.

I almost didn't qualify for a special park-type hunt because my first clean shot was almost 2" to the left of my aim point. I needed to keep 3 shots in a 4" circle. I adjusted for the next and aimed 1" to the right and hit where I aimed.

 

[MThuntr]

Fouling shot.

#huntdirty

My muzzleloader never goes hunting without a fouling shot or two. My accuracy is peak at shots 2 through 8 ish… then it begins to degrade. Mostly shoot 777.

^ this.

I've done it for decades with my hawken and recently with inline with blackhorn. I've gone as far as putting a small squib load down under a nitro cart and popping it off but I usually just load up a regular shot and send it. I'm not sure it matters with blackhorn, I didn't clean after the range session and subsequent hunt. It got cleaned and hasn't been shot it in a couple years. Would be a good spring project.

With corrosive powders, I'd try to reduce the amount of time your barrel sees dirty. I did a bad job of that with one rifle and the borescope pics make me sad.