SAJ-99
Well-known member
Hard to feel sorry for the company.
Vail resorts good or evil?:nimbyism in the inter mountain west.
- Thread starter DouglasR
- Start date
DouglasR
Well-known member
Came here looking for sensible debate, instead I get core checked and my service questioned.
DouglasR
Well-known member
Ok, Robin Hand.
Locals only, got it.
DouglasR
Well-known member
@TomTeriffic
Do you have anything to add to the discussion?
Do you have anything to add to the discussion?
It’s like showing up to a gun fight with a switch…. Come with a sensible/educated argument rather than a vice video talking points and you would have had a debate. But we all know what your real intentions were…Came here looking for sensible debate, instead I get core checked and my service questioned.
Most can at-least tough it out for the full season though. Some show up when the snow finally gets good and then leave when they get a runny nose with over a month to go in the season.
@DouglasR
D
Deleted member 52098
Guest
In all seriousness, Vail is definitely the one in the wrong here. Only been here ten years… and the shit they’ve done in just that time frame is uncool. They are soul sucking garbage.
I seem to remember someone not wanting more bike trails in their back yard…
Please proofread my letter to the Dnr discouraging the mtb trail expansion.
This is embarrassing. what the heck am I supposed to say? Is un-trailed a word? am I going in the right direction with this?
www.hunttalk.com
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Vail doesn’t want you, they want to say they do to build this but then they are going to fill it with their J-1 Visa staff that they pay almost nothing, bait and switch my friend. We’ve seen their play book over and over again.
Vail Resorts Increasingly Turn to J-1 Visa Exchange Program for Cheap Labor, Leaving Locals in Lurk
Katelyn Welsh and Nancy Vazquez investigate how local ski resorts increasingly use J-1 exchange visa holders, and new legal action…
TruthVail doesn’t want you, they want to say they do to build this but then they are going to fill it with their J-1 Visa staff that they pay almost nothing, bait and switch my friend. We’ve seen their play book over and over again.
Vail Resorts Increasingly Turn to J-1 Visa Exchange Program for Cheap Labor, Leaving Locals in Lurk
Katelyn Welsh and Nancy Vazquez investigate how local ski resorts increasingly use J-1 exchange visa holders, and new legal action…medium.com
!
DouglasR
Well-known member
Do j1’s not get paid the same as everyone else?Vail doesn’t want you, they want to say they do to build this but then they are going to fill it with their J-1 Visa staff that they pay almost nothing, bait and switch my friend. We’ve seen their play book over and over again.
Vail Resorts Increasingly Turn to J-1 Visa Exchange Program for Cheap Labor, Leaving Locals in Lurk
Katelyn Welsh and Nancy Vazquez investigate how local ski resorts increasingly use J-1 exchange visa holders, and new legal action…
Is this different from resort to resort?
DouglasR
Well-known member
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that battle is lost.Please proofread my letter to the Dnr discouraging the mtb trail expansion.
This is embarrassing. what the heck am I supposed to say? Is un-trailed a word? am I going in the right direction with this?
View attachment 268204
Dougie Brasco, undercover mountain biker made those sons a bitches pay in the comment sections of their strava accounts though.
SFC B
Well-known member
I have been in CO almost 14 years now. I love to ski and have skied from Snowshoe to Whistler in North America, Italy, Germany and Austria. I will say, without reservation, that I find all major ski resort operators pretty disgusting (to varying degrees). The business model has always been based on exploiting labor of 1) locals who don't have a lot of employment options and 2) Ski folks who are ok living very basic in order to get freshies. Add to that the development, congestion and attraction of some of the worst, most entitled people on the planet and you really have to question whether they TRULY benefit the areas they exist in or are just giant spheres of money for corps and coastal elites in an endless cycle. The worst for me so far is seeing what is happening to Winter Park. What used to be a great, chill area(it IS a city park after all) with epic MJ terrain is now the land of freakin $250 daily lift tickets and a douchey faux-alpine village base. I am all for squeezing ALL such resort corps to the brink. BTW, economic impact wise hunting and fishing bring in about .5 billion a year MORE than skiing to CO.
DouglasR
Well-known member
Vail doesn’t want you, they want to say they do to build this but then they are going to fill it with their J-1 Visa staff that they pay almost nothing, bait and switch my friend. We’ve seen their play book over and over again.
Vail Resorts Increasingly Turn to J-1 Visa Exchange Program for Cheap Labor, Leaving Locals in Lurk
Katelyn Welsh and Nancy Vazquez investigate how local ski resorts increasingly use J-1 exchange visa holders, and new legal action…
Actually I think your article might explain this.
Will read when out of car
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
They get paid minimum wage, and typically have their housing (which vail owns) deducted from their paycheck… and as their landlord vail gets to set the rental rates for the housing.
It’s Vail basically trying to emulate the company towns of 19th century England.
Liver-Vail if you will.
J-1 abuse by resorts is common and there have been a number of court cases.
elkduds
Well-known member
This is not all new. I lived in Crested Butte from 1980-88. I worked multiple jobs to pay exorbitant rent for crappy places. Sometimes I had to move to Gunnison because of cost/lack of availability of housing. I shared rentals with people I knew, sometimes lived w several roommates, once had a housesitter gig for a Brit I knew who owned a 2nd home there. A fellow instructor named Pepe slept in a closet in the ski school locker room as often as possible. Everyone knew who the Trustafarians were, they had outside income and could afford to host roommates. It was a fun, adventurous place to live. Seasonal jobs, no insurance, paycheck-to-paycheck existence, no savings, no home and too much fun after hours eventually brought an end to my idyll. Some friends had family resources, bought real estate that is now worth millions and were able to raise families on seasonal income. Imagine the property taxes on a 2 bed 1 bath condo worth a half million dollars, that was bought for $95K.
The difference now is short term rental. It was regular then for homeowners to vacate their house for 2 weeks @ Christmas and maybe a week during spring break and rent it out, often making a month of mortgage payments each week of rental. Now investors own most 2nd homes in resorts and rent thme short term, leaving no long term rentals available for workere.It was much easier to camp back then, they have made stringent rules because so many camp for housing around CB. Some ski towns like Salida are allowing camping in parking lots, even offering some social services like minimal health care and security. Last winter I taught weekends @ Monarch, the ski area above Salida. The resort could not find enough help because of lack of seasonal housing. I either drove 90 min each way from home or paid $50/night for a bedroom in a rustic house 30 miles from the ski area. In Summit County homeowners are paid and given season ski passes for housing a seasonal worker in a spare room. Monarch housed a seasonal employee in an old school bus with a wood stove last winter, no plumbing. Seasonal workers often commute to ski resorts from non-resort mountain towns (Leadville-Vail or Fairplay-Summit), commutes of an hour or more each way. Monarch started employees @ $20/hr and never filled all their positions that winter. Understand, Monarch is 1/10 the size of Vail or Breckenridge, with no onsite lodging. It is in the lowest tier of Colorado ski areas as far as price and terrain. There just weren't that many locals willing to work there, whether it was because of telecommuters swamping Salida/BV or ? I wonder where they will find raft guides? I know those seasonal people camp out all summer instead of trying to rent.
That is the current status of living the ski bum dream. Bleak.
The difference now is short term rental. It was regular then for homeowners to vacate their house for 2 weeks @ Christmas and maybe a week during spring break and rent it out, often making a month of mortgage payments each week of rental. Now investors own most 2nd homes in resorts and rent thme short term, leaving no long term rentals available for workere.It was much easier to camp back then, they have made stringent rules because so many camp for housing around CB. Some ski towns like Salida are allowing camping in parking lots, even offering some social services like minimal health care and security. Last winter I taught weekends @ Monarch, the ski area above Salida. The resort could not find enough help because of lack of seasonal housing. I either drove 90 min each way from home or paid $50/night for a bedroom in a rustic house 30 miles from the ski area. In Summit County homeowners are paid and given season ski passes for housing a seasonal worker in a spare room. Monarch housed a seasonal employee in an old school bus with a wood stove last winter, no plumbing. Seasonal workers often commute to ski resorts from non-resort mountain towns (Leadville-Vail or Fairplay-Summit), commutes of an hour or more each way. Monarch started employees @ $20/hr and never filled all their positions that winter. Understand, Monarch is 1/10 the size of Vail or Breckenridge, with no onsite lodging. It is in the lowest tier of Colorado ski areas as far as price and terrain. There just weren't that many locals willing to work there, whether it was because of telecommuters swamping Salida/BV or ? I wonder where they will find raft guides? I know those seasonal people camp out all summer instead of trying to rent.
That is the current status of living the ski bum dream. Bleak.
Buffs35
Well-known member
Winter park changed overnight. They restricted access to Sorensen park to kids with booked lessons. Devastating, I taught my oldest to ski there. After they squeezed the Eskimo ski club out, I was done.
I like that Vail is arguing that they need to build this housing right now. This has been an issue for years and the idea that they have to develop this particular property right now is bull. I also like that all of the biologists say that if this area is developed it will mean the end of the sheep population, except the biologist hired by Vail. Makes sense.
I feel like Vail is playing politics here and playing the victim card, which is pretty weak. They have been offered alternative sites but refuse simply to stir the pot. Maybe they could use one of the hotels in the Village to house their employees?
I feel like Vail is playing politics here and playing the victim card, which is pretty weak. They have been offered alternative sites but refuse simply to stir the pot. Maybe they could use one of the hotels in the Village to house their employees?
Scott85
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2018
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Gellar
Well-known member
What you guys are talking about happening at Vail is starting to or has been happening to some lesser degree at every tourist destination in the US. At the conference I was at all week there were numerous speakers from tourism groups talking about how we (Dnr, County, city, state conservation agencies) have what tourists want. And they are teaching us how to use the numbers that these tourists provide financially to justify budget requests, park projects, grants, and whatever else we may desire, bringing in more tourists.
But after hours at the bar there is 1 ongoing conversation with the managers and directors, how to get help, both seasonal and full time permanent. We can’t afford to pay full time permanent staff to be able to buy a house or if they have a family their spouse can’t get a job similar to the one they’d be leaving. And the seasonal staff can’t find a rental for 2.5-3 months no matter what I pay them.
But after hours at the bar there is 1 ongoing conversation with the managers and directors, how to get help, both seasonal and full time permanent. We can’t afford to pay full time permanent staff to be able to buy a house or if they have a family their spouse can’t get a job similar to the one they’d be leaving. And the seasonal staff can’t find a rental for 2.5-3 months no matter what I pay them.
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