Vail resorts good or evil?:nimbyism in the inter mountain west.

[Dsnow9]

the “housing crisis” in these resort towns seems like a bunch of whining to me. If you don’t like the wages you should quit working for peanuts and go somewhere else and make a real living like the rest of us poor bastards. Life is full of tough decisions, most people don’t get to have fun for a living.

Many of the jobs are the same as everywhere else. Very few of the jobs that make a resort and resort town function aren’t the “fun” jobs.

 

[D_Walt]

Many of the jobs are the same as everywhere else. Very few of the jobs that make a resort and resort town function aren’t the “fun” jobs.

I’m sure that’s true, but I’d be willing to bet a significant amount of the people working the no fun jobs are still there because they are willing to take the low pay to live the “dream” in a beautiful area.

 

[Dsnow9]

I’m sure that’s true, but I’d be willing to bet a significant amount of the people working the no fun jobs are still there because they are willing to take the low pay to live the “dream” in a beautiful area.

And they are likely working/playing too much to be hanging out on forums complaining about anything.

 

[noharleyyet]

Beatings:attitude

@DouglasR

 

[MTGomer]

All other issues aside (and boy, is that setting aside a lot of issues...) employee housing provided by resorts often doesn't even fall within the definition of affordable housing that real affordable housing organizations use, it is not typically designated as rent-controlled or deed-restricted in perpetuity, usually, there is a sunset on the use as employee or affordable housing and at that point the units can be sold or rented at market rate, it's a way to get developers to subsidize the construction with the promise of huge long term ROI...

Shhhhh. You’re telling all the secrets.

 

[MTGomer]

I’m sure that’s true, but I’d be willing to bet a significant amount of the people working the no fun jobs are still there because they are willing to take the low pay to live the “dream” in a beautiful area.

This is why the bozeman hospital thinks they can pay neonatal nurse practitioners with Masters and doctorate degrees $92,000 a year when the going rate is 125-160 elsewhere

 

[atlas]

Ski resorts ruin just about everything

 

[DouglasR]

This is why the bozeman hospital thinks they can pay neonatal nurse practitioners with Masters and doctorate degrees $92,000 a year when the going rate is 125-160 elsewhere

If this is true like you and master wllm say, it makes me question my faith in western medicine even further.
Cream.

 

[TOGIE]

This is why the bozeman hospital thinks they can pay neonatal nurse practitioners with Masters and doctorate degrees $92,000 a year when the going rate is 125-160 elsewhere

supply and demand.

an RN and NP can make more in Midland. go figure.

that's why the nurses in the denver metro can go many places and make plenty more.

 

[MTGomer]

supply and demand.

an RN and NP can make more in Midland. go figure.

that's why the nurses in the denver metro can go many places and make plenty more.

But they’d make plenty less if they went to Bozeman from Denver.

https://www.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=neonatal%20nurse%20practitioner&l=Denver%2C%20CO&radius=10&from=searchOnSerp&sameL=1

Healthcare is weird. It’s almost like the regular rules of capitalism don’t apply or the people running the businesses think that they don’t.
I don’t know if Bozeman still has its position open but they floundered trying to fill it for a long, long time.

 

[D_Walt]

This is why the bozeman hospital thinks they can pay neonatal nurse practitioners with Masters and doctorate degrees $92,000 a year when the going rate is 125-160 elsewhere

Not saying it’s right by or that I don’t sympathize, but that’s the market, and it’s damn hard to beat the market. As long as someone is willing to accept the lower pay in order to benefit from the other intangibles it won’t ever change. Besides, if they paid higher wages then there would be more and more people piling in and making it worse. i.e. if I could make what I make here in the butthole of the country in somewhere like Bozeman, Crested Butte, Cody, etc., the uhaul would be packed and rolling.

 

[DouglasR]

Not saying it’s right by or that I don’t sympathize, but that’s the market, and it’s damn hard to beat the market. As long as someone is willing to accept the lower pay in order to benefit from the other intangibles it won’t ever change. Besides, if they paid higher wages then there would be more and more people piling in and making it worse. i.e. if I could make what I make here in the butthole of the country in somewhere like Bozeman, Crested Butte, Cody, etc., the uhaul would be packed and rolling.

But do you really want your medical work done by the lowest bidder?

 

[DouglasR]

But do you really want your medical work done by the lowest bidder?

Now that I think about it, I go to the lowest bidder.
Disregard my argument.

 

[longbow51]

This is why the bozeman hospital thinks they can pay neonatal nurse practitioners with Masters and doctorate degrees $92,000 a year when the going rate is 125-160 elsewhere

I don't know about NPs, but lots of MDs in Bozeman are trustfunders; they don't need the money anyway, so can live where they wish.

 

[Wildabeest]

Now that I think about it, I go to the lowest bidder.
Disregard my argument.

And end up unconscious on the floor… kinda like free pups - the most expensive dogs you’ll ever own.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Let’s be realistic. Employees aren’t working there to make a living. They are doing it for the ski pass. The solution is for people to find a real job and forgo “finding themselves” through time on the slopes in their 20’s. Vail will pay a real wage when they need to and not before. But the sheep get to stay.

Disagree.

Sure fry cooks, chair swingers, group lesson ski instructors... but by and large most folks in the valley work for VR, construction, or supporting industries (fire, water, police, healthcare, teaching).

Specifically what I'm referencing is Vail firing 20 year veteran ski school managers, lift operations, maintenance, snow making, and hospitality folks in their relentless pursuit for a balance sheet reality that just isn't really possible for a seasonal rec industry.

Vail is figuring out the hard way (1) you can't pad the books by firing everyone year over year (2) If you do fire everyone who knows how shit works you put yourself in a real pickle.

Contrary to your post folks do stick in out and raise families in these mountain communities.

My 2 cents VR employees need a union.

 

[elkduds]

Disagree.

group lesson ski instructors...

Hey, now!

As for unionizing, I agree with recognition that it will raise prices in an increasingly price-gentrified industry. This is where other options like snow machine towing of alpine skiers seem more attractive.

 

[TOGIE]

But they’d make plenty less if they went to Bozeman from Denver.

https://www.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=neonatal%20nurse%20practitioner&l=Denver%2C%20CO&radius=10&from=searchOnSerp&sameL=1

Healthcare is weird. It’s almost like the regular rules of capitalism don’t apply or the people running the businesses think that they don’t.
I don’t know if Bozeman still has its position open but they floundered trying to fill it for a long, long time.

i haven't done the math, but i'd wager that after you adjust for cost of living, a nurse making the move from Good Samaritan, Lutheran, or Swedish in the Denver area isn't really taking a pay cut if they make a switch to bozeman

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Hey, now!

As for unionizing, I agree with recognition that it will raise prices in an increasingly price-gentrified industry. This is where other options like snow machine towing of alpine skiers seem more attractive.

We all know all the money is in the private lessons.

A private ski lesson at vail is $1400 a day, the instructor get's paid... maybe $140 or ~10% even Deloitte consultants are like

 

[SAJ-99]

Disagree.

Sure fry cooks, chair swingers, group lesson ski instructors... but by and large most folks in the valley work for VR, construction, or supporting industries (fire, water, police, healthcare, teaching).

Specifically what I'm referencing is Vail firing 20 year veteran ski school managers, lift operations, maintenance, snow making, and hospitality folks in their relentless pursuit for a balance sheet reality that just isn't really possible for a seasonal rec industry.

Vail is figuring out the hard way (1) you can't pad the books by firing everyone year over year (2) If you do fire everyone who knows how shit works you put yourself in a real pickle.

Contrary to your post folks do stick in out and raise families in these mountain communities.

My 2 cents VR employees need a union.

I'm not as familiar with Vail, but Big Sky isn't much different. Corporations trying to downsize the payroll isn't new. They use a lot of contractors and those contractors often have to live in other places. These days any construction in Big Sky is typically done by workers commuting from Bozeman. I assume that whatever the bid was accounted for that PITA. I only take exception to the phrase "stick it out". People chose where they live. That was my point.