Vail resorts good or evil?:nimbyism in the inter mountain west.
- Thread starter DouglasR
- Start date
DouglasR
Well-known member
we'll see what you guys are saying when I take the weekend off in the middle of the busy season at work to go shotgun hunting.
DouglasR
Well-known member
might even put in for some of the controlled pheasant hunting areas even though I have no idea what im doing.
Wildabeest
Well-known member
Put a ski tracker on your dog. That’d be fun to see.
DouglasR
Well-known member
I am the dog...Put a ski tracker on your dog. That’d be fun to see.
Southern Elk
Well-known member
Now you’re talking!we'll see what you guys are saying when I take the weekend off in the middle of the busy season at work to go shotgun hunting.
elkduds
Well-known member
BFD
I am the eggman, I am the walrus, ku ku kachoo!
D
Deleted member 28227
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So far, based on snow conditions only, we should have stayed south. They have had a thin season up here in BC/AB. Coverage is thin and it’s now in a daily melt/freeze cycle so the snow doesn’t soften up until mid day. All the locals have shaken their heads that we left CO for this kind of snow. And now my buddy is texting pics from Snowbasin yesterday wallowing in like 3 feet of overnight snow while we carve out crusty fall lines on last weeks snow.
Report so far:
Banff Sunshine: Holy sh*t is the scenery incredible. It’s hard for this CO guy to wrap my head around treeline being at 7100’. Kind of a weird layout and rough on my knuckle dragging snowboarder kids as there are a lot of flat cat tracks to get around once below the Alpine.
Revelstoke: Snow on top is icy crust beyond belief. Almost un-skiable until 11:00. The steep groomers on the East side are ridiculously fun if you like to carve big turns for 5900 vertical feet. The line we skiied yesterday was equivalent to going top to bottom on Super Bee 3 times in one run.
Western CA in general: I love this part of the world, always have. Wanted to move to Calgary since I was young (and nearly did a couple decades back). The views on the drive from Banff to Revy are absolutely unmatched. It is, literally, a National Park the entire way. And with the current exchange rate, it’s even better.
cutting our time in Revy short and headed back to Lake Louise and Banff again tomorrow as it’s slightly better over there.
back to VR - Some interesting info out of Vail’s investor conference last week. As mentioned earlier ITT, as a publicly traded corp, growth is paramount. Now targeting rentals and (fairly obviously) expansion of the Subscription model.
Presentation here: https://investors.vailresorts.com/static-files/0fa65344-b86f-49e0-a8cd-4d7229c3e644
(And, man - the consultant or IR analyst they had build this deck needs to spend some time in remedial PowerPoint. That’s 1990’s vintage stuff).
from brief scan - I disagree with their $365 amortized annual gear cost for the ‘average’ skier (although analyst above did a good job in the footnote to the calc)
Vail Daily article : https://www.vaildaily.com/news/deli...81N38uKiYUDbtzlIbprzBFgnI8O3HflUkXO3sf2XXlJ5M
I haven’t digested it all yet, but imagine they will have similar challenges with online-only for difficult/specific -fit items as the fashion apparel and footwear retailers have
Presentation here: https://investors.vailresorts.com/static-files/0fa65344-b86f-49e0-a8cd-4d7229c3e644
(And, man - the consultant or IR analyst they had build this deck needs to spend some time in remedial PowerPoint. That’s 1990’s vintage stuff).
from brief scan - I disagree with their $365 amortized annual gear cost for the ‘average’ skier (although analyst above did a good job in the footnote to the calc)
Vail Daily article : https://www.vaildaily.com/news/deli...81N38uKiYUDbtzlIbprzBFgnI8O3HflUkXO3sf2XXlJ5M
I haven’t digested it all yet, but imagine they will have similar challenges with online-only for difficult/specific -fit items as the fashion apparel and footwear retailers have
DouglasR
Well-known member
Did y’all really think I’m on the side of these punk ass, smoke head lift operators?
It’s called ski bumming, not skiing and living comfortably without a real job.
You’re supposed to be living for the minute, on the fringe of society and sticking it to the man.
Yeah it’s a bad investment, but who gives af because no matter what your friends or family members with fancy degrees and jobs are doing with their lives, you can always just be like “yeah, well I skied all day” and instantly cuck them out.
Either live that shit, or take it to the front side of the mountain.
Peace
It’s called ski bumming, not skiing and living comfortably without a real job.
You’re supposed to be living for the minute, on the fringe of society and sticking it to the man.
Yeah it’s a bad investment, but who gives af because no matter what your friends or family members with fancy degrees and jobs are doing with their lives, you can always just be like “yeah, well I skied all day” and instantly cuck them out.
Either live that shit, or take it to the front side of the mountain.
Peace
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Chase em with a crossbow & it'll go 10 pages minimum.we'll see what you guys are saying when I take the weekend off in the middle of the busy season at work to go shotgun hunting.
elkduds
Well-known member
TheGreek
Well-known member
New judge in Vail Resorts labor violations lawsuit asks a few key questions
Vail Resorts is awaiting answers in two different lawsuits in which thousands of employees are alleging labor law violations, including failure to pay all hours worked and failure to reimburse for necessary training and equipment....
www.steamboatpilot.com
Irrelevant
Well-known member
So, maybe I have a different prospective here. Why should you (mountain town dweller) be entitled to a "living wage"?
If we, as a society, make that deal, why would anyone live anywhere else? Would you live in SD, or MS, or Masshole-achusettes, over Vail or Jackson or...? No sane person would choice Ohio over CO. Which means all we've done it put even more demand on these small mt towns as people flock to be here. Much like the Hunt Quietly movement, I am 100% anti-affordable housing. I don't want to see more people. I don't want tourist to have a good time. I want them to be stuck in traffic to have incredibly long wait times, and we should tax the bejeezus out of them 6 ways from Sunday. If you support open space and wildlife, then I'd argue you must... MUST I SAY, be anti-affordable housing.
If we, as a society, make that deal, why would anyone live anywhere else? Would you live in SD, or MS, or Masshole-achusettes, over Vail or Jackson or...? No sane person would choice Ohio over CO. Which means all we've done it put even more demand on these small mt towns as people flock to be here. Much like the Hunt Quietly movement, I am 100% anti-affordable housing. I don't want to see more people. I don't want tourist to have a good time. I want them to be stuck in traffic to have incredibly long wait times, and we should tax the bejeezus out of them 6 ways from Sunday. If you support open space and wildlife, then I'd argue you must... MUST I SAY, be anti-affordable housing.
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GrantK
Well-known member
I don't disagree with this, I think there is a fair bit of nuance to it though, My county has two towns that are pretty wildly different in character, one is a tourist mecca and is being overrun and IMO, ruined by the rampant profiteering at all cost of the tourist industry, the other town is very much absentee second homeowners and wealthy trustafarians, it turns out that without some sort of "affordable housing" neither can keep around the people who actually show up and make the towns run, the corruption and NIMBYism that go with letting the rich essentially run the city council and have their way is far worse that what is happening now with a small amount of affordable housing allowing people who otherwise couldn't get in the door to have a say in how things are managed, it turns out that the people who want to live here and are willing to sacrifice to make it happen are much more invested in keeping the place awesome, whereas the wealthy couldn't care less as long as their two weeks a year here are fun, and the tourism industry money hogs want to essentially strip mine every dollar they can and move on to the next town...
It's probably also relevant to note that at least where I am the affordable housing only goes to people who are already residents and make their living locally, theoretically, it shouldn't add to the population, it should just diversify the income level a bit, the reality is probably that it brings in a few people indirectly? also, our area is growing a ton regardless, the minor amount of affordable housing isn't really even a blip on the overall growth...
Full disclosure is that my wife runs a nonprofit that creates affordable housing locally, when she was getting it off the ground my opinion was very much the same as yours, no subsidized housing of any kind, which needless to say created a pretty stressful relationship for a bit... in the long term my outlook has softened a bit as the affordable housing has managed to keep around the people who love the place much more than the wealthy and fight to keep it an awesome place to live, that very well may not be the case for all, or even most affordable projects...
Irrelevant
Well-known member
If a town doesn't run, if there's no where to eat out because there is no staff, if no one is fixing the potholes... then it won't be fun. The only way this battle is won is through a battle of attrition, with the lowest possible standard of living as the common denominator.
How is this not a negative feedback loop? If I want to live in a beautiful place, and I can get affordable housing, then wouldn't I be more willing to work for VR for a lower wage?
Sounds like my feral cat situation... but I haven't softened.
Here are my recommendations for those wanting to keep a mt town cool.
-Land Use zoning: Require high density urban developments with developer funded infrastructure (water, sewer, street). Maintain high level of service for these utilities. The goal is to make developments cost prohibitive.
-Support higher non-urban development standards/codes, with off-setting mitigation and conservation easements a requirement. Min 40 ac zoning, no accessory dwellings.
-Taxes on all real estate transactions to fund public land banks.
-Outlaw short-term rentals, or at least go to a permit system and require the owner live on site.
-Oppose high speed internet expansion
-Oppose all traffic projects
-Oppose all economic growth/tourism efforts.
Gellar
Well-known member
I always tell my staff we are our own worst enemies because we spend every Monday-Wednesday picking up and cleaning after the weekenders leave only for them to show back up on Thursday to a clean park, boat landing and town that they can run around destroying all weekend with very little retributions.
