Utah gives Ryan Benson $2 million

[Ben Lamb]

South Dakota didn't have a Sage Grouse season last year and it's not because of oil and gas.

South Dakota's problems are more aligned with disease and ag conversion, as I understand it.

Eric - west nile is a huge factor. Glad to see you acknowledging the role climate change has in the bird's decline.

Livestock grazing isn't as much of a problem as converting sagebrush prairie to cropland. Grazing can actually be beneficial to sage grouse if done correctly.

You can ignore the science all you want to your own peril. You can fight a listing with the belief that Utah & Benson will save the day, but in the end, you're going to lose that fight.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Here's SD's plan: https://gfp.sd.gov/wildlife/docs/sage-grouse-management-plan.pdf

Worth a read.

 

[JLS]

While the fence claim seems laughable on the surface, it is a very real cause of sage grouse mortality.

 

[Ben Lamb]

While the fence claim seems laughable on the surface, it is a very real cause of sage grouse mortality.

Danged science getting in the way of barstool biology.

 

[1_pointer]

While the fence claim seems laughable on the surface, it is a very real cause of sage grouse mortality.

That is easily and in many cases cheaply mitigated. Brush management along the fencelines is very helpful. Locating them where they are more easily seen by the birds is probably tops IME and more important than distance of use areas such as leks, brooding habitat, etc. Adding reflectors/visual cues helps. Also, reducing the number of avian predator perches in an area.

I worked with/along side the guy that may have been the first to document/publish this fact. He related to me once that he almost regrets publishing it as that is the one thing from that pub that people continually latch on to. Lots of other good info in there about the management of habitat for sage grouse.

 

[tjones]

Guess who's back.

Back again.

BigRacks Back.

Tell a friend.

Guess who's back.......Guess who's back................Guess who's back..

I missed his debate style of constantly asking one line questions. Well maybe not.

 

[Eric Albus]

Funny thing about the fences....there were more fences at the turn of the century than there are today... how did the sage grouse ever survive the homesteader...fencing every 160 acre parcel...and eating sagies by the dozen. I have spent a lot of time fixing fences and observing sage grouse....and I have never seen a dead one from "fence mortality"....not saying that it does not happen, but were it a significant problem the birds would be extinct by now...

climate change is real, happens every few days here in NE Mt....and it has been going on since the ice age.


.

 

[shoots-straight]

Funny thing about the fences....there were more fences at the turn of the century than there are today... how did the sage grouse ever survive the homesteader...fencing every 160 acre parcel...and eating sagies by the dozen. I have spent a lot of time fixing fences and observing sage grouse....and I have never seen a dead one from "fence mortality"....not saying that it does not happen, but were it a significant problem the birds would be extinct by now...

climate change is real, happens every few days here in NE Mt....and it has been going on since the ice age.


.

Yea, and it might have been responsible for a few thousand dead birds in the last 100 years, but now that many might die in a month where it took a century. Things are different and going at an accelerated pace. You forget the winter of 2010 already?

 

[spook12]

Where's Miller? I would like to hear his take on the topic.

 

[OriginalOscar]

If you aren't for States rights you are against the Constitution. Is that what you are for Dukes?

Enabling act for statehood surrendered property claims and now the states rights crowd wants to deny that provision.

Regarding California and ammunition the 2nd amendment says nothing about ammunition and if the state applies their own standard and law then it is within their states rights. If you don't like it dust off the muzzleloader and make your own balls like Jim Bridger.

 

[Eric Albus]

shoots, no, have not forgotten the winter of "10-'11....never will...for many reasons...

however, sage grouse migrate....of which I was first that I know of to suggest such...biologists put tracking collars on sagies in southern reaches of Reg 6(which I am sure had nothing to do w/ me suggesting)...and found the birds migrate back to S. Sask.(not all do, but a goodly portion go home) Migration was the only thing that could explain what I was seeing near the Breaks during the winters, and explain for seeing "flocks" of sagies flying great distances w/out sitting down in Dec... I may not have a degree in biology, but if only I were King...all of our hunting oppotunities would be better...sometimes common sense and few hundred years of observations(aka history) will take you further than a "book learnin'

 

[Ben Lamb]

shoots, no, have not forgotten the winter of "10-'11....never will...for many reasons...

however, sage grouse migrate....of which I was first that I know of to suggest such...biologists put tracking collars on sagies in southern reaches of Reg 6(which I am sure had nothing to do w/ me suggesting)...and found the birds migrate back to S. Sask.(not all do, but a goodly portion go home) Migration was the only thing that could explain what I was seeing near the Breaks during the winters, and explain for seeing "flocks" of sagies flying great distances w/out sitting down in Dec... I may not have a degree in biology, but if only I were King...all of our hunting oppotunities would be better...sometimes common sense and few hundred years of observations(aka history) will take you further than a "book learnin'

It's done so well that now we're near a listing.

Good job.

 

[Eric Albus]

Has worked so far in Reg. 6...our sage grouse are steady to increasing(barring a west nile episode). However, we may be the only area in the west able to make that claim unless you count S. Sask...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Has worked so far in Reg. 6...our sage grouse are steady to increasing(barring a west nile episode). However, we may be the only area in the west able to make that claim unless you count S. Sask...

SW MT is stable and increasing - no west nile and major ag conversions.

Not sure what the research has said about R 6. If that's the case, then we shouldn't be limiting hunting, which is not a limiting factor for healthy populations.

 

[mtmiller]

Has worked so far in Reg. 6...our sage grouse are steady to increasing(barring a west nile episode). However, we may be the only area in the west able to make that claim unless you count S. Sask...

Eric, this is not true for R6. Decreasing.

 

[1_pointer]

Has worked so far in Reg. 6...our sage grouse are steady to increasing(barring a west nile episode). However, we may be the only area in the west able to make that claim unless you count S. Sask...

I know areas I worked in Utah had stable to increasing populations of sage grouse. To the point that some where being trapped to help supplement a seperate population. From the few folks I'm still in contact, I've not heard of this changing in the 4 years since I left.

In some parts of Utah, the bulldozer is a sage grouse's best friend...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Eric, this is not true for R6. Decreasing.

Whoops.

1 pointer - As I heard it, transplants wouldn't work given the bird's ability to up and die at the drop of a hat.

 

[1_pointer]

Whoops.

1 pointer - As I heard it, transplants wouldn't work given the bird's ability to up and die at the drop of a hat.

They can work, but not always. Mortality rates for collared transplanted birds into Strawberry Valley ranged between (roughly) between 25% and 75%. Some of the birds were still being found up to 3 years after transplanting them. IIRC, one of the big things for this to work is the time of year they released them and the strong predator control in the release areas. In the meetings I was in, up to 2010, the UT DWR seemed very pleased with the transplant results and the growth of the supplemented population.

Edited to add this link I found in a quick search. Looks like a worthwhile read...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.520/abstract

 

[Ben Lamb]

They can work, but not always. Mortality rates for collared transplanted birds into Strawberry Valley ranged between (roughly) between 25% and 75%. Some of the birds were still being found up to 3 years after transplanting them. IIRC, one of the big things for this to work is the time of year they released them and the strong predator control in the release areas. In the meetings I was in, up to 2010, the UT DWR seemed very pleased with the transplant results and the growth of the supplemented population.

Avian or coyote?

Seems like an expensive alternative to bringing out the D-10.

 

[1_pointer]

I edited while you were posting. The pertinents are in the article I linked.

D-10's should be brought out at all opportunities! That said, 6's are more than enough...