Utah Gets Montana Sheep

[BigHornRam]

Utah got 52 Montana sheep in late December. The sheep came frome unit 124 and the Sun River country. They were released in the Flamming Gorge area. Utah FNAWS paid for the helicopter time and the transportation costs. Utah is doing great things with their sheep program!

 

[Bambistew]

Utah got 52 Montana sheep in late December. The sheep came frome unit 124 and the Sun River country. They were released in the Flamming Gorge area. Utah FNAWS paid for the helicopter time and the transportation costs. Utah is doing great things with their sheep program!

Wish I could say the same about MT...

 

[BuzzH]

Montana gave another 62 to Idaho.

Bambistew, I agree with that 100%.

MT decides its a good idea to transplant sheep, then have the FWP kill them for entering a state-owned WILDLIFE management area...

 

[mtmiller]

...and 49 to Nebraska.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

damn since mt is giving away bighorn sheep send some my way...ah hell.....send 50, that will do

 

[Bambistew]

Who ever is in charge of the sheep in MT should be sent packing, they obviously could give a rats a$$ about the sportsman of the state... And as far as I can tell, never really did... The Melrose heard comes to mind...

I can't understand how a state such as CO could have no sheep a little over half a century ago, to now they give out more sheep tags than the state that seems to think they have to many and should just give them away...

MT just gave away as many sheep as they basically give out tags for each year... WTF!!!

 

[BigHornRam]

Bambi,

These are ewes and lambs that are going to other states to start new herds there. It's either transplant the sheep or have a ewe hunt, as these herds are way over there carrying capacity. The other states apreciate the sheep we give them and return the favor down the road. From what I understand, the Melrose herd was way over populated and ripe for a big die off when it happened. The FWP has learned from this that is why they are keeping the herds in check. No one specifically is in charge of MT sheep right now. It is hoped that FWP will hire a full time sheep only biologist in the near future, with the funding coming from the Governor tag money.

BTW Montana has the best Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep herd in the nation. I don't know what you beef is.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

I'd like to see MT charge the neighboring states for the lambs and ewes instead of giving them away. More money would be raised for MT sportsmen and management if they held ewe hunts rather than just giving sheep away.

What is Nebraska going to trade to us??? A couple hundred ditch parrots? 49 Whitetails? Maybe a flock of starlings? How about Idaho....what do they have to trade to MT? A few black bears? Utah could always offer up a few Bison...MT needs more of those.

Oh, and on the Melrose herd...

Thats one lesson they have to learn how many times? What happened with 213? What happened with the Highlands unit? What happened in the Bitterroot?

Slow learners I guess.

 

[JoseCuervo]

BHR,


What is Nebraska going to trade to us??? A couple hundred ditch parrots? 49 Whitetails? Maybe a flock of starlings? How about Idaho....what do they have to trade to MT? A few black bears? Utah could always offer up a few Bison...MT needs more of those.
.

We got wolves we can trade.... That is probably the favor down the road that BHR is looking for....

Buzz, I do think the transplant idea is a good one, as getting the herds disperesed into unique areas gives some prevention to mass die-offs caused by contact with the Range Maggots that BHR is always saying belong on public lands...

 

[BuzzH]

Gunner,

I agree, other states do need sheep, but they have to worth something...

I'm sure all the MT residents are eagerly awaiting for Nebraska, Idaho, and Utah to return the favor.

Plus, at least the other states may like them enough to not allow them to be shot for entering a state-owned wildlife management area.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Idaho used to trade sheep out of state for Turkeys to bring back in. I think the ratio was 10:1, Ithica might remember. We now have so many turkeys running around, the ranchers are getting tired of seeing them in their driveways all winter.

 

[Bambistew]

It's either transplant the sheep or have a ewe hunt

Exactly!!! I'd apply for a friggn ewe tag! I'm never going to draw a ram tag along with 10,000 other applicants in our life time in MT, well it hasn't happened in the last 14 years of applying for the best odds areas in the state just so I can draw a friggn tag!!!

Now that I'm a non resident, I've pretty much given up hope on drawing a tag all together! Hell I've even applied for ewe tags, twice as a first choice!!! At least I'd get to go sheep hunting on my own tag once in my life! If you don't think the ewes are worth much, then show me a unit in MT that has left over ewe tags every year! Why not give out friggn ewe tags so we can HUNT them?!?! Naw lets just piss away... 40-50 sheep hunting oppertunities next year. Or about twice the number of ewe tags offered every year!!!

There are plenty of areas in MT that have very low populations of sheep... Why not transplant them there instead of giving them to other states? If they want to "trade" something, then they should set a side half the sheep tags in those "other" states soely for the residents of MT!

Hmm I wonder what a sheep tag in NB is going to cost for a NR? $3000? $5000??? More? Are they even going to give out any?

By "best" do you mean the biggest rams? Thats about all I can figure about "best" would be, it sure as hell isn't the "best" population or opportunity!!! From what I see, the population pales to what CO has! I see more sheep along the roads in CO in one trip across the state than I see in a whole season of driving and hunting in MT! Sure I could go to one of the four wintering ranges in MT that I can think of right off and see sheep, but how many am I going to see at each? 30 here 40 there and maybe 150-200 between all those areas? You can sit on the interstate in a couple places in CO and count twice that many in an afternoon! I wonder why CO is not "giving" their sheep away too? Looks to me like thier heards are "over objective" in a lot of areas too! Wait, maybe its becaus CO cares about giving tags out instead of giving sheep way and loosing hunting opportunity!

About 17,800 people applied for roughly 170 MT sheep tags...

About 9,000 people applied for roughly 320 CO sheep tags!!!

What a wonderful deal this was for everyone but the hunters of Montana's sheep!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Bambistew,

Keep applying...you may draw, but I guarantee you wont draw unless you apply. This year will be year number 26 for me in Montanas sheep draw. I drew both moose and goat there too, so it does happen. I also drew a ewe permit many years ago on a second choice. A good friend of mine also drew as a NR this year.

Montana actually does have a good sheep population, but they are VERY stingy with tags. The main reason for the lack of tags is because most all the units are EASY hunting, I've been on tougher mule deer and antelope hunts than most of the sheep areas. The FWP also chooses to make easy areas even easier by running the seasons from mid-sept. to the end of November. That way the 12 year old kids, 65 year old grandmas, 80 year old grandpas, etc. can get one. The price to be paid for that is drawing odds like they are.

Montana could give a lot more tags if they held short hunts that ran from the end of August to the first couple days in September and had a full curl requirement. I cant tell you how many pictures I've seen of over-weight sheep hunters with record book rams in Montana...but when all you have to do is roll the window down and poke a gun barrel out the window to bag a booner....what do you expect? I also know that a good portion of the people that draw tags in Montana and kill a booner, would be lucky to get ANY sheep in states like Wyoming, Idaho, and Colorado.

MT sheep are big, but the hunting is a piece of cake and the draw odds suck.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

I agree with you that Montana should end our sheep hunts earlier and make it a REAL sheep hunt. I also would like a full curl rule or eight year old minimum, or both horns broomed. I think you will see a lot more ewe tags issued in the near future. We are running out of places to put excess sheep.

Bambi,

There were several non res this past year that drew a ewe tag on accident, and thought they drew a ram tag. They all wanted a refund when they found out what happened. How many guys would pay $750 for a ewe tag? Your the first I've heard of. We can't use sheep from non native herds to supplement struggling native herds for fear of a die off. The non native herds have more resistance to disease than the isolated native herds. Much the same as the Native Americans when they first came in contact with Europeans, they had no immunity to European strains of disease, and died in mass because of this.

Why do so many people apply for Montana vs Colorado? Same reason Schmalts values certain Utah elk tags. The big rack sydrome. Same reason a Alberta Gov. tag goes for $400,000 and then the hunter waits until a big ram leaves a reclaimed mine site that does not allow hunting. Sounds to me that since you are not a resident of Montana, Colorado would be a better place for you to hunt for sheep. Idaho may be even better. Better odds for smaller sheep in a wilderness setting. I rank my Idaho sheep as my best trophy hands down because of that. It was earned.

One other thing to consider. If B. C. was as stingy with their California bighorns as you would like Montana to be with our excess sheep, their would not be established huntable herds in Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, North Dakota, and so on.

 

[BigHornRam]

Bambi,

Here are some more thoughts. Have you ever applied for Montana's unlimited hunt? What other state allows for a guarenteed unlimited sheep hunt? I hear the Spanish Peak hunt is supposed to be back this year. Some more information on the 124 Perma Paradise herd. The unit falls on both reservation and non res land. In 2000 there was a fire on the reservation making for better quality forage there. Most of the sheep have been on the resevation which hunting there is off limits to non tribal members for the past several years. The sheep numbers have balooned in this unit because of this. Lately the benefit of the improved pasture has started to wear off, and more and more sheep are spending time off the res. This unit will most likely have a large number of ewe tags this year, with a better chance of getting a ewe if you get a tag.

 

[mtmiller]

or eight year old minimum

This guy may have disagreed on the age minimum requirement.

http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18257

 

[BigHornRam]

Miller,

I am not the best at aging sheep, but he looks like eight to me. Maybe seven. But there's proof of what kind of sheep you can get when you have good genes and good habitat. He also is broomed on both horns, and if we could see a side view, would be right at full curl. So in my book he would be legal!

Maybe Montana could have some tags with more opportunity with harder hunting conditions, and some tags for grandma and grampa. I know a lot of people that would like to see more tags issued with a shorter season for hunting, but for some reason there is resistance to this from those in charge. I'll keep pushing.

 

[Bambistew]

BHR, I don't know what the answer is. I just don't understand the motive of sheep managment in MT! Giving sheep away and keeping the tags at the same amount is rediculous... Something needs to be done! I really think they need to find out how CO did it... Every time I go through that state I see sheep... about half the time their on the highway!

I would go along with having a shorter season. What about rifle early and bow late? I would go for that. I bet they could give out about two to three as many tags if they went that route... They need to get over the mentallity of if you draw a tag you should be garuenteed a sheep... if hunters want that then they should just hunt behind a fence!

I did hunt the spanish peaks area about 5 years ago... It was a friggn zoo. We saw sheep but no leagal rams during the season. One that was close but was to far away to verify... I spent alot of time trying for one that fall to. I think I spent over two weeks scounting before the season, and once th season opened they sheep dissapeared... maybe something to do with 150 people running around every where you looked... The sheep vanished after day two! I liked the fact that I had about as good of a chance of killing a sheep as drawing a tag in a limited area... At least i was sheep hunting. I handn't heard that they were bringing it back. I thought I read someplace that it was going to be closed again this year!

If they do bring back the spanish peak hunt I may try it. I'm not sure I want to spend $750 on a ewe tag either... I was talking about when I lived in MT that I put in for ewe tags. I think there was about 250 applicants that put in for about 50 ewe tags last year. So there is a pretty decent amont of people that are willing to hunt them.

 

[mtmiller]

I am not the best at aging sheep, but he looks like eight to me

According to the article, he is only 7.5. Man what a ram.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, well for the most part, I just wanted to point out that a ram under 8 yo can still be a pig.

 

[BigHornRam]

Miller,

Have you seen that ram that Jack A Jr found dead in the Highlands that FWP calls "the King"? He was aged at 7.5 years as well and scores around 203. Montana has some good sheep! British Columbia has a Full Curl or 8 year old rule for a sheep to be legal. Most guides will not let you shoot one based on age because of the uncertainty of aging them based in the horn rings. I would be in favor of some reasonable way to make getting a ram more difficult then getting out of the truck and shooting them from the shoulder of the road during the rut. A lot of people feel this way so maybe this is something that could be worked towards successfully. More opportunity at a lower success rate is not a hard sell in my mind. This is sheep hunting after all and not an African Safari.

Bambi,

Sheep numbers are up expecially in Western Montana and the Breaks. There is a new herd in Skalkaho Creek near my house that re-introduced themselves. I see lots of sheep nearly every time I drive up there to cut firewood or go for a hike. Same for the East Fork of the Bitterroot. Same for the herds around Thompson Falls. The Elkhorn herd is growing and Unit 340 is back to having a hunt. The sheep in Montana are doing good other than some of the unlimited units and the native herds in N W MT, and I have already told you why we can't supplement those herds. Next transplant site is the Bridgers if we can get some easements in place. I think the Bridgers could produce a new world record ram in the future if a transplant goes forward.