UT bonus point, worth the purchase?

[Zim]

I'm in fact a very positive person. However, reality is reality. I don't like it when I see newbies deceived by the dog and pony shows Don Peay and many state legislators orchestrate. They are increasingly all about creating perceived value, selling the opportunity to NOT hunt, and separating sportsmen from their money. There is a world of difference between real value and perceived value. These clowns are becoming expert at perceived value and hooking investors to buy into their Ponzi schemes. And if they can just set the hook to get a guy to start buying points, they know the customer feels obligated to continue down the road so as not to lose those points and their time investment. Thus it is very important for a newbie to evaluate each state's tag scheme very carefully, and to understand they can be screwed out of their points at any time by unscrupulous legislators and/or wildlife boards. That is reality. Sad but true.

 

[The Hedgehog]

 

[Mallardsx2]

Old thread. But I found it and to be honest I wished I had NEVER gotten in the point game in utal. Even the less desirable tags are going for WAAAAY more points than they are worth. Interesting read nuntheless. I am banking on people dying off or getting too old to hunt as sad as that is to say.

 

[Trial153]

Four years later the answer is still no it isnt worth it ...

 

[utah400elk]

In several Utah units there are very limited tags. I would suggest picking a SJ or Pavant early rifle elk tag or a Henry deer tag. Crazy low odds and you still get the point. It does not cost anymore than just applying for point. Your odds are low but no reason not to put in IMO.

 

[huntin24/7]

I started getting deer/elk points for Utah 4 years ago not knowing how bad point creep is. I’ve got enough other hunts planned that I’m going to gain points until my 2 year old son is in high school and can go with. At that point, I’ll apply for the best unit I should be able to draw and have a great time.

 

[Zim]

Just want to point out since this thread came out in 2016, Randy Newburg has openly stated in his recent videos that he does not recommend investing in Utah points. Totally concurring with my 2016 opinion. Curious if anybody here accuses him of “sniveling” as well.

Also want to point out that I’ve drawn numerous great tags during those four seasons since, using my strategy. Including AZ Kaibab deer twice, AZ elk unit 1, WY deer 87, WY lope 108, IA zone 5 deer, to name a few. During that same time, the odds for my target Utah deer unit actually decreased 4X despite my 24 points. Two more of the tags were converted to auction by SFW. Sound like a plan for those of you on the ground floor?

I still agree with Randy Newburg, Mallard, Trial, and others. I wish I’d never bought in. There are far better places to invest your hunt money. Newbies, Just do the math. It will make your decision easy.

BTW - The exact same can be said for Nevada. Just say no there. Thousands of squared points in front of you.

 

[rmyoung1]

I started getting deer/elk points for Utah 4 years ago not knowing how bad point creep is. I’ve got enough other hunts planned that I’m going to gain points until my 2 year old son is in high school and can go with. At that point, I’ll apply for the best unit I should be able to draw and have a great time.

Not to pour salt in your paper cut, but your son might be well out of high school before you can draw. I have 13 points for UT elk now and seem to remain 1-2 points behind the late seasons units I’m chasing. If you look at the draw results, 15 points doesn’t give you much in UT, even late rifle tags. And that’s 15 points today. In another 15 years, we’ll be talking about how 20 points doesn’t get you much. It’s pretty grim if you’re just now starting out in UT.

 

[huntin24/7]

Not to pour salt in your paper cut, but your son might be well out of high school before you can draw. I have 13 points for UT elk now and seem to remain 1-2 points behind the late seasons units I’m chasing. If you look at the draw results, 15 points doesn’t give you much in UT, even late rifle tags. And that’s 15 points today. In another 15 years, we’ll be talking about how 20 points doesn’t get you much. It’s pretty grim if you’re just now starting out in UT.

Thanks. That was very uplifting to hear. . My biggest regret is never starting to accumulate points for Nevada. Guess I’ll have think more on UT. At least it’s cheap I guess.

 

[NoWiser]

Zim, your strategy is nothing special. It’s basically that you were born at the right time to get in on the ground floor of point systems.

Utah is not worth it if you need to draw in your lifetime to not be disappointed. My applications there are basically lottery tickets. A guy has to be able to dream.

 

[Kiwi]

Interest post, it’s great to get peoples opinions on Utah’s system.

My plan is to start buying Utah deer points so I can hunt deer with 2 - 3 points eg general tag or LQ archery tag. My main reason is I like Utah and spending a week there hunting deer sounds like a good plan to me.

 

[WapitiBob]

Just want to point out since this thread came out in 2016, Randy Newburg has openly stated in his recent videos that he does not recommend investing in Utah points. Totally concurring with my 2016 opinion. Curious if anybody here accuses him of “sniveling” as well.

He's not sniveling, just posting his opinion and I disagree. The cost to apply for Elk in UT is less than $50/year when you span 2 years with the license, not much of an expense in the grand scheme of western hunting costs. Pick a hunt that has a decent number of NR random tags and apply. With Bonus Points, you get an increasing weighted advantaged every year. If a guy has 3 points and is applying for a unit that currently takes 15, there needs to be a discussion. Having realistic expectations is part of it.

 

[MEG2]

I waited 13 years to hunt Utah, but only bought points until it looked like I had enough to draw the tag. Had a tremendous hunt and killed a really nice bull. During my 5 year waiting period, I started buying points for my son. He decided to apply for the same hunt this last year and drew with 4 points. So, I would say it is worth it because depending on what unit you are applying for, you stand a chance to draw.

 

[rmyoung1]

Thanks. That was very uplifting to hear. . My biggest regret is never starting to accumulate points for Nevada. Guess I’ll have think more on UT. At least it’s cheap I guess.

Yeah, sorry, @huntin24/7 . I don’t want to be a downer. But I do think sometimes people get a little hoodwinked with the someone’s-gotta-draw mantra that circulates around. I wouldn’t advise you to bail on UT necessarily. You might be the lucky dude who pulls a random tag. And you might have the funds to devote to the effort. Great! Just make sure you understand that what is a 12-year wait today will be a 20-year wait in the years to come. When I first started building points about 15 years ago, I had plans for future hunts that got tossed as reality set in. The point game in UT is a moving target.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I mean.

I drew a late rifle elk with 6 points, have drawn swan, multiple general season deer, limited turkey, sage grouse, multiple cow elk, and doe deer tags in Utah.

It is possible. I think living next to Utah has something to do with it.

I can go hunt Chukar, Ducks, and Pheasants with the license as well as fish.

If you live farther away, then you will have to prioritize what you want.

I think the general deer tags are worth applying for, but others may only want to look at the Pauns and Henry's.

I think that cow elk tags are worth applying for, but others may only look at the limited entry units.

I can't hunt swans in Wyoming, but can draw a tag in Utah.

If you are just looking for a tag and a hunt, then Utah isn't a bad option.

- Cow Elk, General Deer, Dedicated Deer, Extended Archery, Spike Elk, Open Bull Elk

If you are looking for a trophy tag to hunt, then Utah may be a long wait.

- However a trophy tag to hunt is a long shot in a lot of states and Utah is one of the cheaper ones to apply too.

 

[Trial153]

You probably have better odds at the expo from the SFW mafia then you do in the NR Utah draw.

 

[Zim]

You probably have better odds at the expo from the SFW mafia then you do in the NR Utah draw.

Yup. I wonder how many ground floor guys really study the trophy hunt draw statistics, and compare between states. I'm talking the trophy units. Not does, cows, spikes, egrets, sandhill cranes, gophers, crows, etc. The trophy tags are what SFW has siphoned off the top in Utah, creating the exponentially terrible draw odds. (And they tried to do in Arizona 2012. Thank god they failed.). I mentioned previously, this has resulted in bighorn sheep type odds in the random draw for the mediocre to good, much less premium, elk, deer & pronghorn hunts. Randy is very familiar with those odds as they compare to values in other states like WY, CO & AZ. Being an accountant, I'm quite sure he knows his numbers. UT is just statistically a poor NR investment compared to the alternatives. That is a fact, not an opinion.

 

[geetar]

Some of your numbers are off by quite a bit.

In AZ, it's $15 per species to apply and get a point. It isn't $15 to apply AND $15 for a point.

In CO, You can buy a fishing or small game license for $56 or something and then points are free. You are looking at maybe $80 or something to get points in everything.

MT is a bit messed up with their combo tag and their refund to get the bonus point but you aren't paying $50 in an app fee for that. MT is not a state to build points for deer and elk if you aren't going to actually hunt with the combo tag. Yea for the big 3 you are paying $50 per app but not deer, elk and antelope.

I believe Utah is the same as AZ where it is $10 to apply and get the point. Or at least if you're doing points only, it is only $10 each.

Also in Montana there is no $20 point for bison. It’s just a random draw.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Yup. I wonder how many ground floor guys really study the trophy hunt draw statistics, and compare between states. I'm talking the trophy units. Not does, cows, spikes, egrets, sandhill cranes, gophers, crows, etc. The trophy tags are what SFW has siphoned off the top in Utah, creating the exponentially terrible draw odds. (And they tried to do in Arizona 2012. Thank god they failed.). I mentioned previously, this has resulted in bighorn sheep type odds in the random draw for the mediocre to good, much less premium, elk, deer & pronghorn hunts. Randy is very familiar with those odds as they compare to values in other states like WY, CO & AZ. Being an accountant, I'm quite sure he knows his numbers. UT is just statistically a poor NR investment compared to the alternatives. That is a fact, not an opinion.

Trophy units ?

in Wyoming at 75/25 , how long until you draw area 100 ?

in Arizona with 20/80 with 10% cap, how long until you draw the strip?

in Colorado with 100 pref, how long until you draw the northwest corner unit 2?

in any of these trophy units if you got in right now, it’ll be a long uphill battle.

If you’re after limited pressure and big racked animals, you’ll be waiting a while and may never draw.

I think the case you should be making is that the mid tier units in Colorado and Wyoming are better than comparing the ability to draw trophy units.

Also, if you have ever eaten sandhill crane then they would be a species that you would want to apply for and get. Best wild game meat on the planet.

 

[Zim]

Dude,
The definition of "trophy unit" is quite relative. You are going to the highest extreme naming the #1 units in those states you compare. Those are out of the question for any ground floor NR now. Even me with 20+ points! When you consider let's say units that offer an archer a 50% chance at a 320"+ elk, that is a reasonable benchmark to look for VALUE. The chance for a newbie NR drawing this type of tag is far, far higher in WY or AZ, etc. than Utah for sure. Look at the odds for let's say UT Book Cliffs compared to CO 61, AZ 6A, WY general, etc. These are exponentially easier to acquire than the Utah tag. You cannot argue with that. As Randy says, "Utah would be at the bottom of my list". Put it that way.

BTW - I spent this last archery deer season hunting directly next to the Jasper-Pulaski State Sandhill Crane Refuge. Literally walked the property line daily. It's the sandhill crane migration epicenter of the US. Dang when they all take off each evening I can't hear anything. Fugettabout hearing a deer approach. Get to glass stud bucks every day though walking around that refuge in broad daylight.