UPOM suing FWP over elk regulations

[Eric Albus]

Of course not. It heavily favors Landowners.


North American Model of Wildlife Conservation

1. Wildlife resources are conserved and held in trust for all citizens.
2. Commerce in dead wildlife is eliminated.
3. Wildlife is allocated according to democratic rule of law.
4. Wildlife may only be killed for a legitimate, non-frivolous purpose.
5. Wildlife is an international resource.
6. Every person has an equal opportunity under the law to participate in hunting and fishing
7. Scientific management is the proper means for wildlife conservation.

1. If wildlife resources were actually conserved for all citizens public land would have wildlife managed to be present at all times.
2. It has been
3. Wildlife is now allocated by those protecting them, not to those providing maximum opportunity for sportsmen.
4. This is ambiguous enough a good lawyer could find reason to end sport hunting.
5. If survey says so must be the case.
6. This would end 454, as it gives evil landowners a gratis permit.
7. This works as long as wildlife is accessible.

 

[Ben Lamb]

@Eric Albus a few days hanging with folks like Shane Mahoney would help folks understand the model.

Like all things, we tend to try and make these issues fit narrow views.

Aldo Leupold wrote that ensuring farmers & ranchers were valued for their contributions to conservation was critical to the continued model. He isn't wrong.

The issue at hand is what does that recognition look like within the bounds of ensuring we're not swapping out current problems for well known problems elsewhere.

 

[Eric Albus]

Ben, I understand the model, and can see it’s scope.

Leupold was correct in his assessment of landowner contribution, accidental and purposeful, to wildlife. I can also see where landowner “fence row to fence row” farming/ranching has degraded wildlife habitat.

Your last paragraph is why my recommendation is to tweak 454 rather than scrap it.

 

[Unlucky]

North american model is sadly out dated. We are in a time of money and power. The 99 percent want better public hunting. The 1 percent trying to do what is best for them. Compromise. Is this gaurenteed bull tags depending on how many acres u own. But with that is general cow elk hunting. But with huge pressure and the notoriety of elk hunting,whether it sport or meat? 1st choice only otc or apply limited entry. We are all wanting the best. Not enemies. Choose the best for the herd.

 

[Unlucky]

Sadly habitat conflicts with cattle grazing

 

[Unlucky]

If truly we did best for wildlife there would not be cattle grazing on public. Another can of worms. With modern era there is compromise. I unprivalegrd public land hunter. But be pissed if i owned half the mountain and couldn't hunt my backyard. That being said cant get the milk for free.

 

[Unlucky]

Everybody that is old enough should remember the 90s. Uncles and my dad told me of the 60, 70, 80s. Stop being selfish. Make it good for your kids and grandkids

 

[antlerradar]

Elk objectives should only be based off habitat sustainability as determined by biologists, not landowners nor hunters. We do offer a guaranteed elk landowner tag (non transferable) for landowners with more than 640 contiguous acres. Providing them with one additional transferable bull tag would provide some additional benefit/remuneration if they chose to participate in the Block program. Taking of bull elk will not help manage the overall population so issuing multiple guaranteed bull tags wouldn't solve anything.

I like the idea of limiting the mule deer season to something less than it currently is.

Trying something is treacherous to @brockel 's point. Making some changes to programs already in use is a better course

The landowner preference draw is not 100% in all units, but it does up the odds of drawing considerably.

 

[Eric Albus]

Sadly habitat conflicts with cattle grazing

With proper grazing it enhances wildlife habitat, it’s a very delicate balance.

 

[brockel]

With proper grazing it enhances wildlife habitat, it’s a very delicate balance.

With proper grazing I agree. But in a lot of the areas we are talking about here that is not happening. A lot of the blm is grubbed down to the dirt.

 

[SwaggyD]

With proper grazing I agree. But in a lot of the areas we are talking about here that is not happening. A lot of the blm is grubbed down to the dirt.

That is the blm’s fault. Hold the ranchers that are over grazing accountable for that.

 

[brockel]

That is the blm’s fault. Hold the ranchers that are over grazing accountable for that.

Been that way for the last 13 years I’ve hunted up there.

 

[Sytes]

That is the blm’s fault. Hold the ranchers that are over grazing accountable for that.

It's the, "If he's doing it, I can too..." vs holding true to quality stewardship of the land and speaking up as one involved in the process.

 

[R.K.]

It appears there may have been a development in this saga that I missed. Forgive me if it’s been posted already.

Conservation groups, FWP disagree over defense against elk regulation lawsuit

The groups, which routinely engage in elk policy making, claim the motivation for the lawsuit is lucrative outfitting for bull elk.

helenair.com

 

[shoots-straight]

When Montana “tries” things they usually don’t abandon them when they fail. They just add to them making them worse

Boy oh boy, Who in their right mind would have thought that Hank Wh@z* would not want sportsman to intervene on behalf of MTFW&P's? Buzz's wonderful saying "Anyone with 2 firing brain cells can see that UPOM is really looking for the Gianforte administration to settle out of court.

 

[DFS]

I suspect this was a canned outcome from the start.

 

[sacountry]

Boy oh boy, Who in their right mind would have thought that Hank Wh@z* would not want sportsman to intervene on behalf of MTFW&P's? Buzz's wonderful saying "Anyone with 2 firing brain cells can see that UPOM is really looking for the Gianforte administration to settle out of court.

Agreed. The UPOM suit would very likely get shot down based on precedent so they'd like to avoid court. Getting Greg involved to settle it is more than a little worrisome. Pretty sure UPOM recognizes the need to get this done now vs any closer to Greg's reelection campaign.

 

[brockel]

Let’s do what Nebraska is doing. See if people really have an elk problem or if they just have a problem not being able to shoot a bull every year

 

[sacountry]

Nebraska just made Hank look good. Never heard of an either sex damage hunt that doesn't burn your fall tag until now.

 

[rogerthat]

Agreed. The UPOM suit would very likely get shot down based on precedent so they'd like to avoid court. Getting Greg involved to settle it is more than a little worrisome. Pretty sure UPOM recognizes the need to get this done now vs any closer to Greg's reelection campaign.

I don't know why you guys are so distrustful of hammering hank and jersey greg!!! Just trust them! They will take care of the lawsuit