Underwood Xtreme Penetrator or Buffalo Bore Dangerous Game ammo?

[A207X2]

I've always been a fan of Buffalo Bore ammo, but I've begun looking at Underwood ammo. I just purchased 40 rounds of Xtreme Penetrator in 10mm for my revolver and am impressed with it.

I've got 60 rounds of Buffalo Bore Supercharged lead-free 30-06 that I'm currently sighting in, and have the Leupold CDS dial for it. That will be my go-to ammo for long range hunting of large game.

Now I'm looking at ammo for my 45-70 and am again leaning towards Buffalo Bore Dangerous Game 380 gr mono-metal, but the Underwood Xtreme Hunter +P 325 Grain Xtreme Defense is pretty impressive. This will be for large game < 200 yards.

Buffalo Bore says "You can shoot bull elk length-wise with this load and expect the bullet to exit."

What have you guys shot, and which would you choose for the 45-70?

 

[MTLabrador]

Is the .45/70 for hunting or bear defense? I’d rather use an expanding bullet if it’s for hunting.

 

[A207X2]

Is the .45/70 for hunting or bear defense? I’d rather use an expanding bullet if it’s for hunting.

Hunting.

 

[Tradewind]

Federal Premium

 

[Rob96]

What are you hunting?

 

[EastTNHunter]

FWIW, I’ve seen several online reviews of the underwood bullets (not necessarily in 45/70, but several other calibers) showing that they don’t perform in the real world (wound channel) like they do in lab settings. Most of the reviews that I’ve seen suggest that the design is more of a gimmick and acts mostly like a solid, but take it for what it’s worth. I’m not familiar with the others that you have listed.

I used to roll my own 45/70 when I had one, and got a lot of satisfaction casting and quenching my own 420gr bullets. They do not expand on game, but a wide meplat on a big diameter bullet provides a large wound channel by basically cutting a plug all the way through the game and pushing out away from the flat front. This imparted shock and hemorrhaging beyond the direct wound path. Hollow points tended to open up and decelerate very quickly and not guarantee exits wounds. Remember that you are starting out at a relatively low velocity already.

With that being said, you don’t necessarily need a lot of expansion from a fat bullet like the .458 to get good wound channels if it still disrupts its pathway. Slight or petalled expansion, or a wide, flat meplat are preferred over large expansion. If a mono will open up in petals and cut without slowing down too much, then I’d lean that way over the strange nose on the underwood.

It looks like that Buffalo Bore ammo may perform like a wide meplat cast bullet based on the look of it

 

[A207X2]

What are you hunting?

Moose, Grizzly (defense)

 

[FLS]

300 Grain Speer Hollow point. Best 45/70 Bullet I’ve used. It‘s not really a hollow point, more of a flat point with a dimple. Its a tough bullet that penetrates well, and expands enough but not too much. Killed some big deer and hogs with them. Always get complete penetration and decent expansion at +P speeds.

 

[A207X2]

FWIW, I’ve seen several online reviews of the underwood bullets (not necessarily in 45/70, but several other calibers) showing that they don’t perform in the real world (wound channel) like they do in lab settings. Most of the reviews that I’ve seen suggest that the design is more of a gimmick and acts mostly like a solid, but take it for what it’s worth. I’m not familiar with the others that you have listed.

I used to roll my own 45/70 when I had one, and got a lot of satisfaction casting and quenching my own 420gr bullets. They do not expand on game, but a wide meplat on a big diameter bullet provides a large wound channel by basically cutting a plug all the way through the game and pushing out away from the flat front. This imparted shock and hemorrhaging beyond the direct wound path. Hollow points tended to open up and decelerate very quickly and not guarantee exits wounds. Remember that you are starting out at a relatively low velocity already.

With that being said, you don’t necessarily need a lot of expansion from a fat bullet like the .458 to get good wound channels if it still disrupts its pathway. Slight or petalled expansion, or a wide, flat meplat are preferred over large expansion. If a mono will open up in petals and cut without slowing down too much, then I’d lean that way over the strange nose on the underwood.

It looks like that Buffalo Bore ammo may perform like a wide meplat cast bullet based on the look of it

Thanks. Yeah, I’m using Buffalo Bore in all my other “must work” applications, and I think I’ll stick with that.

 

[noharleyyet]

TBone turned me on to Steinel 300g Hornady JHP when picked up my first 45-70, an 1895 SBL...ammo was just getting scarce. I'm zeroed for 325 Hornady FTX but the 300's require a short correction and group well. The 45-70 is a big ol stick.

 

[OntarioHunter]

My PH and I were discussing this the other day. He has switched to brass bullets. This past season he had to put a second shot into a client's buffalo (presumably poorly hit) as it was going away. With his .458 Lott he hit it just ahead of the right leg with bullet exiting ahead of left front shoulder where it joins the neck. Impressive! That's full length through a sixteen hundred pound animal with a thick hide. He was using 500 gr Dzombo bullets and his own recipe. I can't imagine what the recoil was like. I have handled his CZ and it's heavy but not exceptionally so. Glen offered to let me shoot it at the range but no thanks, not with my fragile retinas. I shot my buffalo with his .375 CZ using just 250 gr Barnes mono. Killed my first one with a single frontal shot through the heart at 110 metres. This last one took two hits, both fatal. First bullet was broadside on the run and through both lungs lodging in ribcage of opposite shoulder. Second entered the chest head on, deflected, exited bottom back end of ribcage, and shattered left leg at the knee. Both bullets were recovered. First one was nicely expanded losing just two grains. It barely clipped bone in the right shoulder on entry but still stayed on tragectory. The second bullet was badly deformed, presumably when it shattered the bull's knee. It still lost only four grains. Monos are impressive for this work in that calibre. .375 is bare legal minimum for cape buffalo and my PH prefers clients use something for initial shot that has enough expansion to cause a lot of organ damage but still hold together enough for acceptable penetration. Pass through is of secondary importance with that calibre and that beast. However, for backup he wants something that will crush bones and slow the animal down before it can dive deeper into the brush ... or turn and crush the shooters. The frontal shot into my first buff didn't crush any bones or exit. But that big critter didn't run fifteen yards before tipping over. I gotta say, I think a flat broadside shot square into the shoulder (which seems to be what PHs prefer for clients' first shot) might be a bit dicey for penetration with 250 gr .375. They have a heart half again the size of a sack of bread but those shoulder bones are MASSIVE. My experience has been whacking both lungs can still leave a buff with enough gas to be plenty dangerous. Minus just one lung would barely phase him.

Glen says meplat brass has been shown to stay on track better than FMJ lead after impact. And brass holds together better than copper. It all makes sense when you think about it. My .375 mushroomed to a diameter approximating .458 and lost significant energy in the process. That energy caused the desired internal organ damage adjacent to wound channel but sacrificed penetration. His .458 solid brass at the same diameter and presumably somewhat similar velocity (maybe), creates the same soft tissue damage wound channel on impact and all the way through that big animal end to end, bones be damned. Of course there is a price to be paid ... at the shooting end. An uninitiated client could easily get hurt shooting a 500 grain bullet. He/she would likely not be much help with follow up if the initial shot was badly placed and buffalo got mad about it. When a buffalo is angry all hands are needed on deck.