Ukraine / Russia

[Europe]

Seems like some of us need to read more about the information battles leading up to and during WW1, WW2 and the cold war.

i.e. Navy Cryptanalysis, midway
Marine Navajo's. I Jima
Army, operation Fortitude, Normandy

all come to mind and worked for us

I think one of the problems people are having with the new government agency is the timing if it. Right after Musk bought Twitter and the "Truth" app seem to be gaining traction. Even those working for Twitter were having a problem with the fact that things might change. I have witnessed bias in the news for years, but it was more subtle and/or disguised better in the past, than is today, with shows today designed to appeal to the left and right.

But, having said that, I also worry about foreign countries using social media to weaken and if possible destroy the American Dream. I just hope the new agency works to eliminate misinformation directed at us from foreign country's, without quieting any voices from American' that are expressing their opinion or knowledge about their country.

However, the old saying "wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up the faster" comes to mind, but bottom line, I see the need for the agency but worry about its "reach"

 

[LWC55]

That is not what it is for - but enjoy your partisan strawman raging b*ner issue if you must.

If a single American citizen in fact denied a sincere right to rational speech not induced by Xi or Putin by this specific workgroup, I will join you with my pitchfork. But culture wars aside, I want our security system digging deep into Xi and Putin's strategy to defeat western democracies.

What is it for? What qualifies Nina Jankowicz to to be executive director of the Department of Homeland Security's new Disinformation Governance Board? This top notch "security system" as you say.

That is if you don't get too distracted by her official portrait.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519282822158110721

Nina Jankowicz
@wiczipedia

 

[SAJ-99]

The US should have free speech and an honest media.

Americans should learn to recognize bull chit. Unfortunately that apparently is too hard.

 

[VikingsGuy]

This top notch "security system" as you say.

Time to grow up and have an adult conversation - we are not on a FOX panel. I never said "top notch security system". If you have a point then make it without misstating the positions of others or throwing in completely irrelevant sidebars like her photo.

As for what qualifies her? The same thing that qualified every political appointee of this administration - the last administration's total lack of discipline, self-control, modesty, humility, and rationality. It took a great economy and a weak opponent and lost by millions of votes by driving away lifelong conservatives with its hubris. Elections have consequences - if we don't like the current appointees, maybe we can get a grown-up to run next time.

 

[SAJ-99]

Cracks showing?

Cracks emerge in Russian elite as tycoons start to bemoan invasion — The Washington Post

Oligarchs are distraught over the toll it’s taking on their fortunes and feel powerless to influence Putin.

apple.news

 

[VikingsGuy]

Cracks showing?

Cracks emerge in Russian elite as tycoons start to bemoan invasion — The Washington Post

Oligarchs are distraught over the toll it’s taking on their fortunes and feel powerless to influence Putin.

apple.news

Glad to see it, but of course tyrants are rarely slowed by internal complaints:

Purges of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cultural Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LWC55]

Time to grow up and have an adult conversation - we are not on a FOX panel. I never said "top notch security system". If you have a point then make it without misstating the positions of others or throwing in completely irrelevant sidebars like her photo.

As for what qualifies her? The same thing that qualified every political appointee of this administration - the last administration's total lack of discipline, self-control, modesty, humility, and rationality. It took a great economy and a weak opponent and lost by millions of votes by driving away lifelong conservatives with its hubris. Elections have consequences - if we don't like the current appointees, maybe we can get a grown-up to run next time.

You said "security system" for which I quoted. I added the -top notch- hence the no quotes. My point was and I think Europe has already alluded to this as well. This administration does not want there to be free speech. Elon Musk purchases twitter and says he will now allow free speech. A few days later this admin appoints a Department of Homeland Security's new Disinformation Governance Board. Probably just another coincidence.

I don't care to comment on the other msnbc talking points.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You said "security system" for which I quoted. I added the -top notch- hence the no quotes. My point was and I think Europe has already alluded to this as well. This administration does not want there to be free speech. Elon Musk purchases twitter and says he will now allow free speech. A few days later this admin appoints a new Department of Homeland Security's new Disinformation Governance Board. Probably just another coincidence.

I don't care to comment on the other msnbc talking points.

Both sides have speech they like and speech they don’t and a nasty tendency towards blocking the later. But both sides have to get over themselves and deal with the real challenge of active misinformation by our two most dangerous opponents.

Oddly the world ignored Hitler when he put his plans in writing years in advance. The Russians have written much about how to use disinformation to undercut democratic institutions - will we listen this time, or will we prove them right?

 

[FI460]

Both sides have speech they like and speech they don’t and a nasty tendency towards blocking the later. But both sides have to get over themselves and deal with the real challenge of active misinformation by our two most dangerous opponents.

Oddly the world ignored Hitler when he put his plans in writing years in advance. The Russians have written much about how to use disinformation to undercut democratic institutions - will we listen this time, or will we prove them right?

Putin told us he was going to invade Ukraine last year...

Putin's new Ukraine essay reveals imperial ambitions

Russian President Vladimir Putin has outlined the historical basis for his claims against Ukraine in a controversial new essay that has been likened in some quarters to a declaration of war.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

 

[Randi]

What is it for? What qualifies Nina Jankowicz to to be executive director of the Department of Homeland Security's new Disinformation Governance Board? This top notch "security system" as you say.

That is if you don't get too distracted by her official portrait.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519282822158110721

Nina Jankowicz
@wiczipedia

I have, to the best of my ability, read and researched everything that I was able to find about Ms Jankowicz and at this moment in time, I have concerns about her being the right person for the job, she may prove me wrong. My thoughts that she may be the wrong person for this job, has nothing to do with how she looks.

 

[LWC55]

Both sides have speech they like and speech they don’t and a nasty tendency towards blocking the later. But both sides have to get over themselves and deal with the real challenge of active misinformation by our two most dangerous opponents.

Oddly the world ignored Hitler when he put his plans in writing years in advance. The Russians have written much about how to use disinformation to undercut democratic institutions - will we listen this time, or will we prove them right?

I'm a lot more worried about our own country's censorship that I am some other country's "disinformation". That is what other countries do. Have forever and forever will. We have alphabet agencies set up to handle those issues. We don't need another one for "free speech".

 

[LWC55]

I have, to the best of my ability, read and researched everything that I was able to find about Ms Jankowicz and at this moment in time, I have concerns about her being the right person for the job, she may prove me wrong. My thoughts that she may be the wrong person for this job, has nothing to do with how she looks.

I agree with you and it has nothing to do with her looks. She is the one who brought up her official portrait grabbing one's attention. Just an odd statement from an odd person in an odd position. Seems to be big into singing in a Harry Potter style. Whatever that is.

 

[SAJ-99]

I have, to the best of my ability, read and researched everything that I was able to find about Ms Jankowicz and at this moment in time, I have concerns about her being the right person for the job, she may prove me wrong. My thoughts that she may be the wrong person for this job, has nothing to do with how she looks.

You have concerns about her for a job that didn’t exist up until a few weeks ago and is largely undefined? Being a little tough don’t you think? I’m not sure who else was being considered for same job, which I will repeat we don’t even know what it is.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm a lot more worried about our own country's censorship that I am some other country's "disinformation". That is what other countries do. Have forever and forever will. We have alphabet agencies set up to handle those issues. We don't need another one for "free speech".

I think that's a dangerous underestimation of social media.

In the WWII you had Axis Sally broadcasting on the radio, mostly saying how Germany was awesome and the US sucked. You did not have groups breaking into radio stations and impersonating the station and distributing a message that basically said, "oh man candidate 1 eats babies" with the only goal of sowing discord. You also didn't have enemy agents showing up at supper clubs/ rotary meetings/church, etc. simply to stir the pot and get folks pissed at each other. You didn't have enemy agents trying to impersonate your friends and family to spread false information.

I'm very much undecided on the idea of this Board, definitely has a thought police vibe, but at the same time we have never dealt with propaganda on this level before.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You have concerns about her for a job that didn’t exist up until a few weeks ago and is largely undefined? Being a little tough don’t you think? I’m not sure who else was being considered for same job, which I will repeat we don’t even know what it is.

News cycles can not be missed just for the sake of gathering facts and assessing impact - only time to sharpen pitchforks and re-fuel the torches - it’s been at least 36 hours since we had raw meat to hate each other over for god’s sake.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think that's a dangerous underestimation of social media.

In the WWII you had Axis Sally broadcasting on the radio, mostly saying how Germany was awesome and the US sucked. You did not have groups breaking into radio stations and impersonating the station and distributing a message that basically said, "oh man candidate 1 eats babies" with the only goal of sowing discord. You also didn't have enemy agents showing up at supper clubs/ rotary meetings/church, etc. simply to stir the pot and get folks pissed at each other. You didn't have enemy agents trying to impersonate your friends and family to spread false information.

I'm very much undecided on the idea of this Board, definitely has a thought police vibe, but at the same time we have never dealt with propaganda on this level before.

The last 60 days has shown two things - Russia can’t mount an effective modern military operation against a weaker opponent and the US can’t stop tearing itself apart even though a crazed dictator has threatened nuclear escalation. I again am convinced our species isn’t capable of surviving another 50 years.

 

[LWC55]

I think that's a dangerous underestimation of social media.

In the WWII you had Axis Sally broadcasting on the radio, mostly saying how Germany was awesome and the US sucked. You did not have groups breaking into radio stations and impersonating the station and distributing a message that basically said, "oh man candidate 1 eats babies" with the only goal of sowing discord. You also didn't have enemy agents showing up at supper clubs/ rotary meetings/church, etc. simply to stir the pot and get folks pissed at each other. You didn't have enemy agents trying to impersonate your friends and family to spread false information.

I'm very much undecided on the idea of this Board, definitely has a thought police vibe, but at the same time we have never dealt with propaganda on this level before.

I understand what you are saying. But what are some actual recent examples of other countries' disinformation having a big impact on Americans. There are several examples of our own govt, media, and social media censoring information that likely changed election outcomes, medical outcomes, investment outcomes, etc....

 

[longbow51]

I understand what you are saying. But what are some actual recent examples of other countries' disinformation having a big impact on Americans. There are several examples of our own govt, media, and social media censoring information that likely changed election outcomes, medical outcomes, investment outcomes, etc....

One that springs to mind that actually changed global policy was seeding the "greens" both here and in Europe to ban fracking and nuclear, and make them dependent upon Russian oil.

I'm sure there are others.

In general, though, agree with you. It will be decades before the medical establishment as a whole (not necessarily individual doctors) is trusted again.

And no reason to raise VG's BP higher than it is by mentioning Non-Russian Russian disinformation.

 

[Randi]

You have concerns about her for a job that didn’t exist up until a few weeks ago and is largely undefined? Being a little tough don’t you think? I’m not sure who else was being considered for same job, which I will repeat we don’t even know what it is.

fair enough, I will withhold my opinion of whether I think she is the right person for the job until the job has been defined. I wonder, how whomever choose her knew she was the right person for the job since the job has not been defined yet. It will be interesting to watch this play out.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I understand what you are saying. But what are some actual recent examples of other countries' disinformation having a big impact on Americans. There are several examples of our own govt, media, and social media censoring information that likely changed election outcomes, medical outcomes, investment outcomes, etc....

Honest response if I gave them you would say fake news, which is why they are so nefarious.

It’s not the comical nature of the broadcasts in the 50s. It’s taking an idea that’s plausible, inserting it into the conversation and then spreading it everywhere with bots and fake accounts to the point that it seems true. Then we have a hard time separating fact and fiction.

It’s catalyzing conversations.

Small example, an American tv personality makes a statement, that statement benefits Russia/ China so they “make it go viral”, instead of the statement being passing, it becomes the dominate idea in the conversation.