Ukraine / Russia
- Thread starter Cheesehead
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Tradewind
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like someone on here....
D
Deleted member 28227
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I'm frustrated specifically because I agree with you about everything until here...
I absolutely do not want to go to war with Russia, I absolutely do think Russia would use their nuclear weapons.
What I do think we should do is put pressure on Russia to come to the table and end the war. Trucker et. al (maybe) think they are pointing out that the Maine (per your example) isn't real. I think that they clouding the issue, allowing Russia to obfuscate, allowing China to say, look Russia had cause so we can still buy their oil, trade, etc. ( it's not all Tucker, but that general theme and sentiment, and yes China would likely take that position regardless but it strengthens their position)
IMHO we are in a rhetorical war and have been, with authoritarian regimes since the 1930s and the pro-Russia rhetoric is undermining our efforts.
If Biden or other European leaders start saber rattling I will change my opinion.
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longbow51
Guest
You see it as pro-Russia; I see it as anti-war. And I don't think that is what Tucker is trying to do at all. I've been to lots of gyms on Army posts, and I have seen too much (admittedly only a tiny fraction) of what 22 years did to a generation, and for what? And, not to go all Walter, but Vietnam changed the nation, and for what? I understand your reasoning and respect your opinion though.
Nick87
Well-known member
Looks like the civilian death rate has been climbing in recent days. A train station being the most recent that I saw this morning 52 civilians iirc.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
For @Big Fin
www.wsj.com
Opinion | Ukraine’s History Rhymes With Finland’s
Soviet gains after the 1939 invasion came at a punishing cost.
www.wsj.com
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
The unfortunate lesson everyone is being reminded of . . . if you have nukes the world let’s you run amok (i.e., Putin), if you don’t, the world reserves the right to replace you (i.e., Saddam).
It’s not good lesson to relearn. With China ramping up, expect India to do the same, and if India then Pakistan. And of course Iran understands the lesson and as they advance Israel will ramp up in return. And on and on and on.
Grimly, I assume humans will nuke themselves long before climate change can take us out.
www.wsj.com
It’s not good lesson to relearn. With China ramping up, expect India to do the same, and if India then Pakistan. And of course Iran understands the lesson and as they advance Israel will ramp up in return. And on and on and on.
Grimly, I assume humans will nuke themselves long before climate change can take us out.
WSJ News Exclusive | China Is Accelerating Its Nuclear Buildup Over Rising Fears of U.S. Conflict
China has accelerated an expansion of its nuclear arsenal because of a change in its assessment of the threat posed by the U.S., people with knowledge of the Chinese leadership’s thinking say.
www.wsj.com
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Maybe Yellowstone blows first? And gets the last laugh.The unfortunate lesson everyone is being reminded of . . . if you have nukes the world let’s you run amok (i.e., Putin), if you don’t, the world reserves the right to replace you (i.e., Saddam).
It’s not good lesson to relearn. With China ramping up, expect India to do the same, and if India then Pakistan. And of course Iran understands the lesson and as they advance Israel will ramp up in return. And on and on and on.
Grimly, I assume humans will nuke themselves long before climate change can take us out.
WSJ News Exclusive | China Is Accelerating Its Nuclear Buildup Over Rising Fears of U.S. Conflict
China has accelerated an expansion of its nuclear arsenal because of a change in its assessment of the threat posed by the U.S., people with knowledge of the Chinese leadership’s thinking say.
That war is one of the most taught lessons among traditional Finn families. For Russia to lose over a million soldiers in a six-month war is mind numbing. Some say that number of Russian losses, as written in the article, is overstated, but even if it is a fraction of that it speaks to the historical Russian approach to war - Use troops, usually conscripted against their will, as fodder and let the blunt force physics of "humans as targets" eventually carry the day over enemies who actually have concern about their soldiers.For @Big Fin
Opinion | Ukraine’s History Rhymes With Finland’s
Soviet gains after the 1939 invasion came at a punishing cost.
Churchill, preoccupied with his own defense, was viewed as a supporter of the Finns, even if the Brits had no resources to spare. The US, worried about an escalation with either Stalin or Hitler, hoped to negotiate a peace that would avoid war and did not offer the Finns any assistance. Within two years, the US was sending millions of troops to Europe when it became obvious that you cannot negotiate peace with those not motivated for or desiring peace.
This article is interesting in showing what the Russians are doing in Ukraine and compare that to the details provided in "Frozen Hell," a very in depth description of the Russian war against Finland in 1939. The reasons stated for going to war, the ill-advised strategies, the political posturing by Russian leadership, to how the conflict was brought to a conclusion.
That Russian-Finn war ended with Russia trying to recoup some credibility and extract itself from a terrible strategic mistake. Russia ended up with a chunk of Finland that Russia said was traditional Russian ground and the locals wanted to be absorbed by Russia. Sounds like the same claims they are making in Ukraine.
Not that we need more evidence, but this provides further evidence that history repeats itself.
SISU!
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Grim, but not surprising news.
www.wsj.com
Opinion | Putin Taps the Butcher of Syria to Subdue Ukraine
Russian Gen. Aleksandr Dvornikov is a ruthless commander with an established record of vicious brutality.
www.wsj.com
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
A good read, but was left with this sense of Russia now experiencing defeat by our methods and over the coming months adapting in the field like Nazis working out their aerial bombing tactical in the Spanish Civil War. Is this just a preview for much worse? I hope for us all that it is not.
and Russia threatening to move nukes close to their border with Finland rings hollow and I dont believe that threat will stop Finland and Sweden from joining.
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
Dvornikov had already the commander of Russia's Southern Command for several years (which was responsible for the Donbas and Crimea), so as they reoriented their forces into his area of operations it made sense that he assume control of the whole operation. So he wasn't plucked out of somewhere else and placed in UKR specifically for his ruthlessness. He is probably their most experienced commander, and has already overseen turning Mariupol to rubble, so his reputation seems pretty spot on.Grim, but not surprising news.
Opinion | Putin Taps the Butcher of Syria to Subdue Ukraine
Russian Gen. Aleksandr Dvornikov is a ruthless commander with an established record of vicious brutality.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Fact Sheet on U.S. Security Assistance for Ukraine | The White House
President Biden today announced an additional $800 million in security assistance to Ukraine, bringing the total U.S. security assistance committed to
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
Russia still has a lot of fighting ahead of them to control these areas. They have been trying for the last week and have made little, to no, progress.
DouglasR
Well-known member
What kind of oil slick does that leave?
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