U.S. says it will cut costs for clean energy projects on public lands

[SAJ-99]

It's mind boggling how many people think the voluntary carbon credit market is run by the government when in reality the government has little to do with it. When Nasdaq bought Puro.earth I realized how big the carbon credit market was going to be.

How big is the carbon credit market?


LONDON, Jan 31 (Reuters) - The value of traded global markets for carbon dioxide (CO2) permits grew by 164% to a record 760 billion euros ($851 billion) last year, analysts at Refinitiv said on Monday.Jan 31, 2022

That is probably because blaming the big bad government is easier than finding a solution to the problems. And because it is confusing. The Cali market auction is government run and the number of credits is technically determined by the state Gov, so I can see where some might apply that same concept to European voluntary markets. But let’s be honest, most don’t know how either work and don’t want to spend the time trying to find out.

 

[TwistedSage]

It's mind boggling how many people think the voluntary carbon credit market is run by the government when in reality the government has little to do with it. When Nasdaq bought Puro.earth I realized how big the carbon credit market was going to be.

How big is the carbon credit market?


LONDON, Jan 31 (Reuters) - The value of traded global markets for carbon dioxide (CO2) permits grew by 164% to a record 760 billion euros ($851 billion) last year, analysts at Refinitiv said on Monday.Jan 31, 2022

So if the carbon credit system will be run somewhat modeled after the stock market does that mean credits can be an appreciable asset that can be bought or sold or traded? If the system is not regulated by individual governments then how can they ensure the funds generated by selling the credits actually go to where there needed, whatever that may be. Are the credits capped? Can a large company purchase all the credits remaining and then sell at a profit to smaller companies at a profit? Can a fella invest in carbon credits at rate x and hold them for a few years to sell at the higher market rate?

I don't see how this can be set up in a way that will be fair and free of corruption and abuse. In my opinion its just going to be another racket. On the other hand it could be an investment opportunity?

 

[PrairieHunter]

So if the carbon credit system will be run somewhat modeled after the stock market does that mean credits can be an appreciable asset that can be bought or sold or traded? If the system is not regulated by individual governments then how can they ensure the funds generated by selling the credits actually go to where there needed, whatever that may be. Are the credits capped? Can a large company purchase all the credits remaining and then sell at a profit to smaller companies at a profit? Can a fella invest in carbon credits at rate x and hold them for a few years to sell at the higher market rate?

I don't see how this can be set up in a way that will be fair and free of corruption and abuse. In my opinion its just going to be another racket. On the other hand it could be an investment opportunity?

I would suggest reading up on these different companies involved. I am not sure they are appreciable assets.

Registry for high quality carbon removals

Puro.earth’s projects target large scale climate impact

registry.puro.earth

Carbon removal you can trust.

www.carbonfuture.earth

About Us - Climate Action Reserve

As the premier carbon offset registry for the North American carbon market, the Climate Action Reserve encourages action to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by ensuring the environmental integrity and financial benefit of emissions reduction projects. The Reserve establishes high quality...

www.climateactionreserve.org

Indigo Ag | Carbon

Carbon by Indigo delivers high-quality soil carbon credits, returning 75% of the carbon credit purchase price to farmers while enhancing farm resiliency.

www.indigoag.com

Verified Carbon Standard - Verra

The Verified Carbon Standard (VCS) Program is the world’s most widely used greenhouse gas (GHG) crediting program.

verra.org

You are correct that this is an investment opportunity regardless of how someone feels on the topic.

 

[westbranch]

No idea on the above questions, but I sold carbon credits on a property that I own to NCX. The agreement is no timber harvest for one year (1/1/22-12/31/22). Based on my understanding they calculate the credits based on satellite imagery. Mine is mainly low swampy ground with willows/alders and minimal mature timber. Will get paid about $400 for the year on 100 acres. Assuming there are other 100 acre parcels that would have much higher payments.

https://landowners.ncx.com/NCX_Sellers_FAQ.pdf

Seems like a good opportunity for timberland investors to get additional cash flow.

 

[TwistedSage]

I would suggest reading up on these different companies involved. I am not sure they are appreciable assets.

Registry for high quality carbon removals

Puro.earth’s projects target large scale climate impact

registry.puro.earth

Registry for high quality carbon removals

Puro.earth’s projects target large scale climate impact

registry.puro.earth

About Us - Climate Action Reserve

As the premier carbon offset registry for the North American carbon market, the Climate Action Reserve encourages action to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by ensuring the environmental integrity and financial benefit of emissions reduction projects. The Reserve establishes high quality...

www.climateactionreserve.org

Indigo Ag | Carbon

Carbon by Indigo delivers high-quality soil carbon credits, returning 75% of the carbon credit purchase price to farmers while enhancing farm resiliency.

www.indigoag.com

Verified Carbon Standard - Verra

The Verified Carbon Standard (VCS) Program is the world’s most widely used greenhouse gas (GHG) crediting program.

verra.org

You are correct that this is an investment opportunity regardless of how someone feels on the topic.

Appreciate the info, will be doing some reading. I am very hesitant to trust in the process at all. But the writing is on the wall, it's coming.

 

[SAJ-99]

I don't see how this can be set up in a way that will be fair and free of corruption and abuse.

@PrairieHunter gave a lot of great background info. The short answer is yes, it is like securities markets, rife with corruption and abuse. But it’s the best we got.

 

[shootbrownelk]

There are over 80,000 orphaned wells in the US.

The industry drilled them, sought exemption from bonding, claiming that "self-bonding" would work well, sold it to state legislatures and regulators and then walked away from the mess they created.

So while industry "can" reclaim, they often times don't. They just declare bankrupty, put the profit in their pockets, and hand the bill to the taxpayer.

The same thing will happen with wind farms. When they are falling apart or not making money the companies will wash their hands of it and walk away, leaving taxpayers to pay for the dismantling/cleanup.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The same thing will happen with wind farms. When they are falling apart or not making money the companies will wash their hands of it and walk away, leaving taxpayers to pay for the dismantling/cleanup.

Agreed, one of my largest hang ups with public land wind in solar is the question, "Is this just a CBM repeat?"

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The same thing will happen with wind farms. When they are falling apart or not making money the companies will wash their hands of it and walk away, leaving taxpayers to pay for the dismantling/cleanup.

Hard to say what the future will bring but that could happen with some projects. If there is still a market for wind energy when they are falling apart my $ is on them getting torn down and replaced with newer wind technology. A huge chunk of current wind construction is re-power projects where they are doing just that. Keep in mind the biggest hurdles to wind development are having conditional use approval on land, having grid interconnect, and having a power purchase agreement. Those hurdles are all but removed when there is an existing wind farm there already. Some of the projects are 80s and 90s wind tech (edit to add: actually falling apart) getting decommissioned and replaced with current tech. Others are 2000's tech that are working fine but the increased efficiencies of new turbines financially justifies replacing them with current models. I know some of the biggest wind contractors have had more re-power work than new work in the past handful of years.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hard to say what the future will bring but that could happen with some projects. If there is still a market for wind energy when they are falling apart my $ is on them getting torn down and replaced with newer wind technology. A huge chunk of current wind construction is re-power projects where they are doing just that. Keep in mind the biggest hurdles to wind development are having conditional use approval on land, having grid interconnect, and having a power purchase agreement. Those hurdles are all but removed when there is an existing wind project there already. Some of the projects are 80s and 90s wind tech getting decommissioned and replaced with current tech. Others are 2000's tech that are working fine but the increased efficiencies of new turbines justifies replacing them with current models. I know some of the biggest wind contractors have had more re-power work than new work in the past handful of years.

I think once the infrastructure is in place (transmission lines, etc) then it's easier to upgrade existing and it's certainly more lucrative than having to go through it all again. Which is why it's likely to be overall less intensive for renewables to develop than traditional fossil fuels, where you have to stick your straw into as many milkshakes as possible, and keep moving on. Once it's gone - it's gone (recognizing that there is infill and rejuvenation in some instances for O&G). Once coal is burned - it's gone. Once oil is out of the ground, you have to keep exploring & developing.

Wind doesn't do that, neither does the sun. Yet still, the idea that we have to sacrifice even more land fopr power generation after the millions that we've already lost, should be unacceptable to most of us.

Edit: This is precisely what companies are doing when they convert from coal to nat gas - reducing cost, increasing supply & increasing profit.)

Nat Gas killed coal much more so than anything the Enviros did.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

I think once the infrastructure is in place (transmission lines, etc) then it's easier to upgrade existing and it's certainly more lucrative than having to go through it all again. Which is why it's likely to be overall less intensive for renewables to develop than traditional fossil fuels, where you have to stick your straw into as many milkshakes as possible, and keep moving on. Once it's gone - it's gone (recognizing that there is infill and rejuvenation in some instances for O&G). Once coal is burned - it's gone. Once oil is out of the ground, you have to keep exploring & developing.

Wind doesn't do that, neither does the sun. Yet still, the idea that we have to sacrifice even more land fopr power generation after the millions that we've already lost, should be unacceptable to most of us.

Edit: This is precisely what companies are doing when they convert from coal to nat gas - reducing cost, increasing supply & increasing profit.)

Nat Gas killed coal much more so than anything the Enviros did.

The solar tax credit for installing solar panels seemed to stimulate lots of folks to install at their homes up here in interior Alaska.
Our local electric coop rate is $0.27/kWh,(compared to $.06-$.08 in MT) so solar is an attractive alternative.
Before Dec. 31, 2019, it was 30% tax credit.
Then 26% from 2020 and 2022.
Then 22% in 2023 and, unless Congress renews the program, it will expire altogether in 2024.

 

[PrairieHunter]

I thought of this thread as I read this article.

Green Hydrogen is really going to be a big deal based on the investment going that direction.

Adani Group, TotalEnergies form green hydrogen JV to invest $50 billion over the next 10 years

Green hydrogen is mandated to account for 10% of the overall hydrogen needs of refiners from 2023/24.

www.power-technology.com

 

[PrairieHunter]

Looks like Montana may be coming around to the idea of Biochar. Look for large renewable biomass energy projects where electricity can be generated from biomass with biochar as a byproduct to keep popping up. Much of this biomass will come from public land.

U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley Introduces Bipartisan Biochar Research Network Act - Bill Seeks to Explore Agricultural, Environmental Benefits of Biochar

U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley Introduces Bipartisan Biochar Research Network Act - Bill Seeks to Explore Agricultural, Environmental Benefits of Biochar

goldrushcam.com

1

September 21, 2022 - WASHINGTON – On Tuesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), a family farmer and member of the Senate Agriculture Committee, was joined by

Sens. John Thune (R-S.D.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) and Jon Tester (D-Mont.) in introducing the Biochar Research Network Act. This bipartisan, bicameral proposal seeks to study the effectiveness of biochar, which is a carbon-rich material produced from biomass. Specifically, the bill would establish a national biochar research network to test the impact of biochar across various soil types, application methods and climates to learn more about its capacity to benefit farmers and the environment.

 

[Irrelevant]

Saw this, wasn't sure where to share it but didn't want to start a new thread.

 

[BWALKER77]

I think once the infrastructure is in place (transmission lines, etc) then it's easier to upgrade existing and it's certainly more lucrative than having to go through it all again. Which is why it's likely to be overall less intensive for renewables to develop than traditional fossil fuels, where you have to stick your straw into as many milkshakes as possible, and keep moving on. Once it's gone - it's gone (recognizing that there is infill and rejuvenation in some instances for O&G). Once coal is burned - it's gone. Once oil is out of the ground, you have to keep exploring & developing.

Wind doesn't do that, neither does the sun. Yet still, the idea that we have to sacrifice even more land fopr power generation after the millions that we've already lost, should be unacceptable to most of us.

Edit: This is precisely what companies are doing when they convert from coal to nat gas - reducing cost, increasing supply & increasing profit.)

Nat Gas killed coal much more so than anything the Enviros did.

Cheap natural gas did help kill coal, but regulations on coal where the main driver.
And look at where we are no with Nat gas prices through the roof.

 

[BigHornRam]

Cheap natural gas did help kill coal, but regulations on coal where the main driver.
And look at where we are no with Nat gas prices through the roof.

Love this quote from the interweb trying to pin it on the Russian invasion, even though the 14% increased use of coal happened in 2021.

"Coal consumption in the European Union is expected to rise by 7% in 2022 on top of last year's 14% jump. This is being driven by demand from the electricity sector where coal is increasingly being used to replace gas, which is in short supply and has experienced huge price spikes following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.Jul 28, 2022"

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Why not abandoned malls instead? Sure, they’re privately owned though also a public hazard. The gubberment could eminent domain these things for a fair price because nobody else needs them anymore. We already know the malls are free of desert tortoise and spotted owls so the EIS will go quick.

Abandoned Shopping Malls Across America

These abandoned shopping malls will give you chills and also make you a bit sad. These grand structures lie withering and forgotten.

www.onlyinyourstate.com

 

[Deleted member 28227]

And look at where we are no with Nat gas prices through the roof.

Gas prices have actually been quite low till recently, and there is a massive differential (-$50) to Europe as the Natural Gas market isn't global the way Oil markets are, that may change if we un LNG facilities.

 

[Irrelevant]

View attachment 244318

Gas prices have actually been quite low till recently, and there is a massive differential (-$50) to Europe as the Natural Gas market isn't global the way Oil markets are, that may change if we un LNG facilities.

I honestly don't understand why other members make any claims about energy without providing data.

 

[BWALKER77]

View attachment 244318

Gas prices have actually been quite low till recently, and there is a massive differential (-$50) to Europe as the Natural Gas market isn't global the way Oil markets are, that may change if we un LNG facilities.

I didn't comment on how long they have been high.