U.S. Debt Ceiling. 31.4 Trillion!

[SAJ-99]

Ultimate goal:
A Nation debt free.

Reality? Congress (Elected representatives = voters = you and I) Can kicked = Ignore root issue another two years.

That is not true. Even if our assets > liabilities, America should issue debt. It is the global benchmark and it benefits us to stay that way.

What can? Seriously?

Do you not like your team allegorically included?

My ‘can’ happens to be fine….but you might wanna take that bug out of yours.

Classic avoidance in answering the question. I don't have a team, unless you are looking for someone to argue with, then I'm convenient. Do you not see anything positive in this potential agreement? At the very least there is some positive in a functioning government where we can debate issues and work toward resolutions without driving the World into recession.

 

[noharleyyet]

You are smart enough not to be obtuse, you just don’t like my answers, and that’s fine.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Ultimate goal:
A Nation debt free.

That would definitely be a net negative for the country.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Ultimate goal:
A Nation debt free.

Reality? Congress (Elected representatives = voters = you and I) Can kicked = Ignore root issue another two years.

While I want lower taxes and less spending, no one's (and no company's and no country's) goal should be "debt free". Cheap debt when used to build capabilities is a big win over "pay as you go".

 

[Sytes]

Ya, ya... heard the speeches... Where does paycheck S.S. $ go if not to T bonds? How about toward flipping U.S. vested interests, invest in our future. Forget debt to Japan, China, etc. Work within our own future.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Ya, ya... heard the speeches... Where does paycheck S.S. $ go if not to T bonds? How about toward flipping U.S. vested interests, invest in our future. Forget debt to Japan, China, etc. Work within our own future.

Personally I’d rather have military hardware and civilian infrastructure with China holding paper that becomes worthless if they go to war with us. Let them pay for the submarines that will launch missiles against them.

 

[SAJ-99]

Ya, ya... heard the speeches... Where does paycheck S.S. $ go if not to T bonds? How about toward flipping U.S. vested interests, invest in our future. Forget debt to Japan, China, etc. Work within our own future.

Securities don’t work that way. China and Japan own the same treasury securities as our banks and citizens. You can’t default on half of something and not affect the other half. Let alone what it would do to future confidence in the US to pay bills. Who is going to loan us money again? It’s like saying “Sure Mr Banker, I didn’t pay the car loan payment, but I will definitely pay the payments on the new camper if you loan me the money.”

Getting rid of $31T in debt was never an option. Even getting rid of the deficit for a year wasn’t an option. Any compromise will be a positive because it has been lacking in our politics. Fixing the problem will require sacrifices. And they will get to do it all over again when the actual 2024 budget rolls around.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Ya, ya... heard the speeches... Where does paycheck S.S. $ go if not to T bonds? How about toward flipping U.S. vested interests, invest in our future. Forget debt to Japan, China, etc. Work within our own future.

Properly managed debt is good, not bad - by a lot. We really need to do more financial literacy training in high school.

 

[Sytes]

We really need to do more financial literacy training in high school.

Amen.

 

[SAJ-99]

Great news. House proposed budget has tax cuts. I’m sure that will fix that debt problem they complain so much about a few weeks ago.

Smith Introduces the American Families and Jobs Act to Cut Taxes for Working Families, Grow Main Street Businesses, and Protect American Innovation & Competitiveness – Ways and Means

waysandmeans.house.gov

 

[Treeshark]

Lowering taxes and lowering the debt should not be mutually exclusive, but… it is a valid point to bring up considering the current state of things.

 

[belshawelk]

So simple. Why don't we just print some more money and pay ourselves back with it.

 

[Sytes]

Great news. House proposed budget has tax cuts. I’m sure that will fix that debt problem they complain so much about a few weeks ago.

Smith Introduces the American Families and Jobs Act to Cut Taxes for Working Families, Grow Main Street Businesses, and Protect American Innovation & Competitiveness – Ways and Means

waysandmeans.house.gov

Heck we can forgive student loans... Forgive the debt owed to S.S. and let the crusty future fellows fall off the cliff. Heck, they can cancel their culture to compensate. After all, it's all accolades for "forgiving debt".

All humor. Obvious nothing of this sort would occur.

 

[BigHornRam]

What are we up to now, after about a 3 month break here arguing about the "properly managed debt". 33 trillion? Interesting articles here about the debt California has racked up, and now wants to dump on the rest of our laps.

California companies pay higher taxes for unemployment debt

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — One potential consequence of California's ballooning budget deficit: Higher taxes for businesses, with increases possible every year for the next decade.

apnews.com

California may pay unemployment to striking workers. But the fund to cover it is already insolvent

Some California lawmakers want to make striking workers eligible for unemployment benefits

abcnews.go.com

"California could have paid off the debt, or at least a sizeable portion of it, in the past two years when it had a combined general fund budget surplus of $119.4 billion. But state officials didn’t do that, to the frustration of business owners like Denise Duncan who are now stuck paying the higher tax."

"In spring budget hearings, Newsom administration officials said their plan was to hope that the federal government would forgive the debt. But Robert Moutrie, policy advocate for the California Chamber of Commerce, said the business community doesn’t believe more federal aid will be coming froma divided Congress with Republicans controlling the House and Democrats, the Senate."

 

[longbow51]

"In spring budget hearings, Newsom administration officials said their plan was to hope that the federal government would forgive the debt.

The last I heard, "hope" was not a plan of action.

 

[BigHornRam]

The last I heard, "hope" was not a plan of action.

Makes a great campaign slogan, though.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

https://x.com/apompliano/status/1715168832841544100?s=46&t=hX77kewai3jTXHlzYxDJsg

Quick rough calcs, if we have 161 mil employed Americans and only 60% of households paid federal taxes last year.. 161 mil*60%=96.6 mil. $833 million more in debt each hour divided by 96.6 mil employees actually paying federal taxes = $8.62 per hr for each federal tax paying employee in the country, 24 hours a day. $1,448.70 per week. That is terrifying.

But at least our puppet in chief was only asking for another $100 bil for Isreal and Ukraine last night.

 

[VikingsGuy]

https://x.com/apompliano/status/1715168832841544100?s=46&t=hX77kewai3jTXHlzYxDJsg

Quick rough calcs, if we have 161 mil employed Americans and only 60% of households paid federal taxes last year.. 161 mil*60%=96.6 mil. $833 million more in debt each hour divided by 96.6 mil employees actually paying federal taxes = $8.62 per hr for each federal tax paying employee in the country, 24 hours a day. $1,448.70 per week. That is terrifying.

But at least our puppet in chief was only asking for another $100 bil for Isreal and Ukraine last night.

That’s not how govt debt works - reserve currency management is not apples to apples with “kitchen table economics.”

 

[Wind Gypsy]

That’s not how govt debt works - reserve currency management is not apples to apples with “kitchen table economics.”

So they have a magic way to make it disappear without taxpayers paying for it?

Seriously though, if there's a good spot for me to learn more about what you're saying, i'd like to get more educated.

 

[SAJ-99]

So they have a magic way to make it disappear without taxpayers paying for it?

Seriously though, if there's a good spot for me to learn more about what you're saying, i'd like to get more educated.

I took issue with some of Pomp's facts and how they quickly evolved to an opinion. There was a lot agree with in his summary, like a lot of hard choices needing to be made. To our benefit, we just aren't seeing a recession. Also positive for the budget, a lot of 2017 tax cuts go away in 2025 (Cue the complaining). No, the debt doesn't just disappear. Stuff has to be paid for whether it is future consumption or past. The cost will be slowing economic growth. That is when politicians like to step in with "tax cuts are magical!", and Americans believe them because kicking cans is a national pastime.

2023 Current State of the Union: US Federal Budget

How much is the national debt and how much does the federal government spend? Get nonpartisan data about the total US debt and the federal budget in 2023 with the State of the Union in Numbers.

usafacts.org