Twin Metals Mining Lease Reinstated Near BWCA

[Irrelevant]

The metals produced at Stillwater and the way they are used are one of the greatest environmental gifts of our time. I’d challenge you to name an employer anywhere in the region that has a ‘greener’ impact.
If it was not for palladium in catalytic converters where would air quality in our country be? I don’t know about you, but I like the Clean Air Act, and the fact that every vehicle produced in modern times must and is able to comply with it.

Also, the rock at Stillwater is pretty benign. It’s not a copper mine. It doesn’t produce acidic drainage. Nitrates from blasting agents are what needs to be treated, and they are in the water treatment process before being sent to tailings, into an impoundment that captures all surface runoff from rain storms and puts it back into the lined pond.
They are permitted to discharge far below EPA limits yet discharge a fraction of their permit. East Boulder is a zero discharge operation.

Even if, God forbid the impossible happened and there was somehow a failure, there simply isn’t the chemical composition in the ore to cause a long term environmental disaster like you’d see with a high sulfide mine.

If you’ve been to either site, you’d see the continuous reclamation, which is what the whole site will someday look like.


Also, there was a large scale chromium mine just up the hill from Stillwater in WWII( not the 60s), to supply the war effort.

Stillwater is also in a legally binding good neighbor agreement with local residents represented by the Northern Plains Resource Council.

They also pay millions in tax to the two counties they operate in and pay ~1100 union workers an average 129k annually.

Ryan Zinke claims to be a geologist too......


What about bwana? Why isn’t two days enough to answer a simple question?

All mines are great while they're economically feasible. I, in no way, stated anything contrary to that. But in the grand scheme, they will all fail. Maybe you won't be around, or maybe your kids, or maybe in your mind when it fails there will be bigger issues. I don't give two hoots how much they pay in taxes or how great they pay their workers. None of that was relevant to the point. All mines will have a negative impact, that is the point, all engineering controls will fail with time. It's the same with all engineering, it all has a lifespan. And yes I have been to stillwater, I'm a geologist, I know that everyone and their puppy dog points to stillwater as the model for doing it "right". I just don't buy the scale at which that determination is made.

 

[Bambistew]

What will this utopia without mining look like? I've often wondered this. If we can't mine with the least impact practical, we shouldn't mine at all? What will our society look like?

Here is a discharge of some highly toxic water, with god knows what for metals leaching. SAD. I've walked the entire 6 miles of it, there is zero form of life in this stream.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Just answer the question, grandpa.

The list is too long and would require some comprehension on your part so just keep your head buried in the sand and keep telling yourself it's all good.

That's like a smoker saying it hasn't killed me yet...

 

[MTGomer]

The list is too long and would require some comprehension on your part so just keep your head buried in the sand and keep telling yourself it's all good.

I’m all about being informed and hearing your perspective. Thanks for contributing with such great value, like you always do. All of your posts are so informative, full of facts and lacking of emotional drivel.

 

[MTGomer]

All mines will have a negative impact,

Considering that every automobile engine’s exhaust from the past several decades is made cleaner with a catylitic converter, I think the impact has been overwhelmingly positive to a level that can never be offset. I bet ole bawaner can remember in person what you and I have only seen pictures of.. pre Clean Air Act smog. Imagine what the air would be like with today’s automobile numbers on the road.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Considering that every automobile engine’s exhaust from the past several decades is made cleaner with a catylitic converter, I think the impact has been overwhelmingly positive to a level that can never be offset. I bet ole bawaner can remember in person what you and I have only seen pictures of.. pre Clean Air Act smog. Imagine what the air would be like with today’s automobile numbers on the road.

You may just get what you wish for.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...-warming/RK=2/RS=MqjX7ArX0IkbkpcmZw98wFipTTk-

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...s-236070/RK=2/RS=ISAdCkPpFlPF2v8yMsiL1Jse2RA-

 

[MTGomer]

You may just get what you wish for.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...-warming/RK=2/RS=MqjX7ArX0IkbkpcmZw98wFipTTk-

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...s-236070/RK=2/RS=ISAdCkPpFlPF2v8yMsiL1Jse2RA-

I just wish for you to answer the question. What environmental regulation that is being cut would effect the proposed mine the OP referenced? But you won’t because you can’t. Beciase the answer does not exist. And if it did, you likely wouldn’t know where to look.
Ignorance has never phased you before, I don’t expect it to now.

In the Information Age, it has never been easier to be informed. It is so easy that ignorance is nothing short of willful. A truly pathetic way to be in my opinion, but it is the way of many.

 

[Irrelevant]

How did this conversation get twisted into support for catalytic converters from a sulfide mine next to the boundary waters?

 

[Gr8bawana]

I just wish for you to answer the question. What environmental regulation that is being cut would effect the proposed mine the OP referenced? But you won’t because you can’t. Beciase the answer does not exist. And if it did, you likely wouldn’t know where to look.
Ignorance has never phased you before, I don’t expect it to now.

In the Information Age, it has never been easier to be informed. It is so easy that ignorance is nothing short of willful. A truly pathetic way to be in my opinion, but it is the way of many.

These are just some of the regulations that have already been removed that will impact our public lands at some point.
*Freeze on new coal mining leases on public lands
*Methane reporting requirement
*Anti-dumping rules for coal minnes
*offshore drilling in the Atlantic and the Arctic
*inclusion of greenhouse gas emissions in environmental reviews
*mine clean-up rule
*sewage treatment pollution regulations
*fracking regulations on public lands
*rule regulating industrial polluters
*safety standards for "high hazard trains

As much as you refuse to acknowledge these are disasters waiting to happen.

There are many more that are already in the process of being rolled back but arguing with a snot nosed infant such as yourself is pointless because you will never see past your own little world.
Carry on

 

[BWALKER77]

How did this conversation get twisted into support for catalytic converters from a sulfide mine next to the boundary waters?

Pretty simple when one thinks about it.

 

[BWALKER77]

These are just some of the regulations that have already been removed that will impact our public lands at some point.
*Freeze on new coal mining leases on public lands
*Methane reporting requirement
*Anti-dumping rules for coal minnes
*offshore drilling in the Atlantic and the Arctic
*inclusion of greenhouse gas emissions in environmental reviews
*mine clean-up rule
*sewage treatment pollution regulations
*fracking regulations on public lands
*rule regulating industrial polluters
*safety standards for "high hazard trains

As much as you refuse to acknowledge these are disasters waiting to happen.

There are many more that are already in the process of being rolled back but arguing with a snot nosed infant such as yourself is pointless because you will never see past your own little world.
Carry on

View attachment 82714

About some specific documents or regulation numbers?

 

[MTGomer]

Why am I not surprised that you continue to deflect then turn to personal insults?

You shouldnt say things to people that you wouldn’t dare say in person. Learn some manners, for goodness sakes. I bet you’re cute when you get this worked up.

 

[BWALKER77]

If nothing this thread is a great example of why politics in this country is grid locked. On one side you have the rape and pillage people and on the other you have people that wont except any mining, logging, etc.

 

[Bambistew]

If nothing thisnthread is a great example of why politics in thos country are grid locked. On one side you have the rape and pillage people and on the other you have people that wont except any mining, logging, etc.

Rape and pillage? You mean the perception of rape and pillage by those that don't want any sort of development, all while they consume literally TONS of natural resources every year and contribute to the rape and pillage they despise? Do you know any of these advocates for the environment that have stopped using natural resources in their daily lives? If anything they consume as much or more than the average person, it takes resources to be vigilant. Stickers, water bottles, NGO groups, flights to gatherings to chant and carry signs, lawsuits, etc.

My favorite saying is "wrong mine, wrong place." Where are all these mythical right mines, and right places for them? When they circle them on a map, please have them relocate the deposits to those locations, it will be much easier for everyone. There is soon to be 8 Billion people on the planet, many of them crawling out of 3rd world living conditions and they will ALL want the same conveniences we take for granted today. Are they willing to give yours up to give to someone else?

Society can not function without the use of natural resources, period. The best we can do is develop them in a way that impacts the environment the least. There is no way possible to make the end result of development = pre-development conditions, although most all mining projects in the US discharge water at equal or better water than pre-development, or at a minimum meeting the federal guidelines to do so. Yep, we were hosed decades ago by mining companies that walked away, but the State and Feds were just as much to blame for not having proper regulations in place to prevent it. Who elected those people? Wish we could do the same with urban sprawl (i.e. you and me), and the hundreds of thousands of miles of streams we have impacted by human borne pollutants. At best we capture/filter 40-50% of the pollution we each individually responsible for...

Next time you go fishing, take a look at all the products you use that are a direct result of mining. From the hooks, to sinkers, to reels, to line guys, your boat, your truck, etc.. Those weights (or bullets if you're a hunter) for example, whether they are lead or some other "non-toxic" type, generated at least 20x as much waste per unit weight. The non-toxic version generated about 2-5+ times more waste than the lead. But wait, you say... "we recycle lead"... How many bullets and fishing weights have you ever recycled? Hunters and fishermen contribute more lead waste into the environment than they realize and are end users of tons and tons of "toxic" metals.

Buy hey, its the mines...

 

[VikingsGuy]

If nothing thisnthread is a great example of why politics in thos country are grid locked. On one side you have the rape and pillage people and on the other you have people that wont except any mining, logging, etc.

Worth a quick read regarding disappointing state of affairs.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...merican-enterprise-institute-interview-218364

 

[BWALKER77]

Rape and pillage? You mean the perception of rape and pillage by those that don't want any sort of development, all while they consume literally TONS of natural resources every year and contribute to the rape and pillage they despise? Do you know any of these advocates for the environment that have stopped using natural resources in their daily lives? If anything they consume as much or more than the average person, it takes resources to be vigilant. Stickers, water bottles, NGO groups, flights to gatherings to chant and carry signs, lawsuits, etc.

My favorite saying is "wrong mine, wrong place." Where are all these mythical right mines, and right places for them? When they circle them on a map, please have them relocate the deposits to those locations, it will be much easier for everyone. There is soon to be 8 Billion people on the planet, many of them crawling out of 3rd world living conditions and they will ALL want the same conveniences we take for granted today. Are they willing to give yours up to give to someone else?

Society can not function without the use of natural resources, period. The best we can do is develop them in a way that impacts the environment the least. There is no way possible to make the end result of development = pre-development conditions, although most all mining projects in the US discharge water at equal or better water than pre-development, or at a minimum meeting the federal guidelines to do so. Yep, we were hosed decades ago by mining companies that walked away, but the State and Feds were just as much to blame for not having proper regulations in place to prevent it. Who elected those people? Wish we could do the same with urban sprawl (i.e. you and me), and the hundreds of thousands of miles of streams we have impacted by human borne pollutants. At best we capture/filter 40-50% of the pollution we each individually responsible for...

Next time you go fishing, take a look at all the products you use that are a direct result of mining. From the hooks, to sinkers, to reels, to line guys, your boat, your truck, etc.. Those weights (or bullets if you're a hunter) for example, whether they are lead or some other "non-toxic" type, generated at least 20x as much waste per unit weight. The non-toxic version generated about 2-5+ times more waste than the lead. But wait, you say... "we recycle lead"... How many bullets and fishing weights have you ever recycled? Hunters and fishermen contribute more lead waste into the environment than they realize and are end users of tons and tons of "toxic" metals.

Buy hey, its the mines...

I am in complete agreement!

 

[sschultz]

Well wrote

 

[BuzzH]

"we recycle lead"... How many bullets and fishing weights have you ever recycled?

Actually a bunch...I pick up sinkers, jig heads, etc. and keep all my old lead fishing tackle and remold them.

I've also "mined" some popular shooting areas that were frequented by guys shooting all lead/tin solids through their pistols. Used that to mold jig heads and slip sinkers as well.

I know several of the gun ranges I've belonged to over the years periodically recover the lead and copper bullets.

 

[huronmtns]

Actually a bunch...I pick up sinkers, jig heads, etc. and keep all my old lead fishing tackle and remold them.

I've also "mined" some popular shooting areas that were frequented by guys shooting all lead/tin solids through their pistols. Used that to mold jig heads and slip sinkers as well.

I know several of the gun ranges I've belonged to over the years periodically recover the lead and copper bullets.

"Recycle Mining" I can almost picture a 100 or so years from now, geologists will be sampling the heavily used skeet and trap range locations for lead deposits. There should be a fairly significant concentrated lead deposit at these locations.

The bottom line is, if there is enough demand for a material someone is going to find a way to get it.

 

[MNH20FowlHunter]

Okay so I think we can all agree on 2 things. 1. Human population isn't going to shrink anytime soon (pending some horrific event) 2. Humans consume natural resources.
As hunters, we should know our past, that natural resources are finite and need to be managed.
Here are to of many scenarios agreeing upon those to facts stated above:

1 We stay on the path we are what are we even doing here trying to protect the land and water? Its just all going to be mined and over populated anyways. Sooner or later all the things in the ground are going to run out. Then what?

2. How about lets take the time now while we still have the resources, to focus our attention on trying to come up alternative solutions, different type of materials, things of that nature. What those are I don't know. I'm not smart enough. I saw a commercial the other day where it was either Exon or BP is making oil from algae. So I saw lets be forward thinking try and get ahead of this stuff before we have to mine everything little thing out of this earth. One way to do that is to make resource extraction less appealing. Yes that may mean it costs more for people like me and you buy those new things but we are by far the wealthiest nation in the world.

That's why I'm standing behind "wrong mine, wrong place" Lets protect some of these areas until we absolutely have to mine them until we have exhausted all other avenues. We are the greatest nation in the world. Lets demand better. Lets challenge the status quo. One doesn't achieve greatness by sitting back and just going "well it worked before lets just keep doing it". Greatness comes from doing things that has never been done before.

I drive a truck, shoot guns, burn gas, use plastic, use copper, iron, hell I use the precious metals that go into the components that are inside the computer i'm typing this from. With that said I want better, I want different choices.