TSS vs Lead - Efficacy for Youth Turkey Hunting

[ImBillT]

To each his own, I suppose.

The “have enough pattern” argument is like the “use enough gun” argument. Some people chase elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor and I won’t do that either.

For what it’s worth, 100 pellets in 10” seems to be the most referenced standard by hunting magazines and ammunition manufacturers big and small (Winchester and Nitro).

They say it, but then they sell you lead 6’s, usually 1.5-1.75oz, and tell you that you’re good to 40yds. Almost no one is getting 100 pellets in a 10” circle with those loads, and the vast majority of hunters have success with them. 60-65 pellets in a 10” circle is actually pretty darn solid.

Heck if you can actually get 100 pellets in a 10” circle at 40yds(which you can with TSS) and you “accidentally” shoot a turkey at 60yds, you should be right in that range of 60 pellets, and you won’t cuss the ammo manufacture.

 

[ImBillT]

870 20ga with 21” barrel 1 5/8 oz of #9s at 40 yards.

View attachment 178742

Nothing can escape that. Should be good beyond 40yds.

 

[RG_Adult_Onset_Hunter]

I wanted to provide my thoughts on TSS vs Lead for turkeys, specifically as it applies to youth hunting. I do think TSS is a gamechanger for youth turkey hunting.

First some general guidelines for minimum pattern density and pellet penetration to ensure a clean kill with a head and neck shot. I'm not here to debate these but I'm sure we'll end up there. Also I don't care if you once killed a turkey at 90 yards by hitting it in the eyeball with 1 lead #7 1/2 pellet. If you meet the following guidelines (and aim well, of course) you will kill the turkey every single time.

Pattern Density: 100 pellets in a 10" circle (which is about 1.27 pellets per square inch if they were evenly distributed)
Pellet Penetration: 1.5"

Obviously higher shot weights recoil more than lower shot weights when launched at the same velocity. To achieve similar pattern density you must shoot a similar number of pellets. So lets compare TSS #10 to Lead #6.

TSS #10:
Muzzle Velocity 1100fps
Pellet Penetration at 40 Yards: 1.53"
Pellets in 1oz: 533
Recoil Energy with 7lb gun: 14 ft/lbs

Lead #6:
Muzzle Velocity 1100fps
Pellet Penetration at 40 Yards: 1.40"
Pellets in 1oz: 221
Recoil Energy with 7lb gun: 14 ft/lbs

Lead #6 shot weight needed to equal # of pellets in 1oz of TSS #10:
Muzzle Velocity 1100fps
Pellet Penetration at 40 Yards: 1.40"
Shot Charge Weight for 533 Pellets: 2.41oz
Recoil Energy with 7lb gun: 84 ft/lbs

Both TSS #10's and lead #6's run out of penetration to ensure a clean kill around 40 yards. To match the pattern density of 1 ounce of TSS #10's with lead #6's you would need 2.41 ounces of shot. You would need a 3 1/2" 10 gauge to fit that much lead into a shell. And that's 6x the recoil to achieve the same pattern density.

Can you kill a turkey with 1oz of lead #6's at 40 yards? Yes, but your gun better pattern well.

Does X more pellets in its head make it deader? No, not necessarily. But more pellets in 10" certainly won't hurt your chances.

Can't you limit shots to, say, 20 yards? Of course, but is everyone here spot on with their yardage estimates while their heart is pounding out of their chest as a gobbler struts in?

If I can set my kid up with a more effective gun/shell combo I'm going to do it. Although I will be robbing him of the pleasure of getting the crap kicked out of him by his turkey shotgun as I did when I was young.

I gotta admit that while the ballistics of tungsten are appealing, the tooth-shattering density of it is not. I shoot meat to eat it. For that reason I limit my shots to sub 30, I know I can kill a bird further out than that, but I'd rather be able to know that the majority of the pattern is going to hit the head and neck, but even then flyers happen and I'd rather they not send me to the dentist.

That said, I snagged a box of bismuth shot that I am going to give a try this spring. I'll let you know how that goes.

As to estimating range with a gobbler in your face, I tend to pre-range my decoy and a few other things ahead of time, that way I know my cut off before the turkey is there. Turkey is all about prep-work. Patterning the gun and knowing how your loads work is paramount regardless of the metal you fling. That said, if less recoil means more practice, than I think the switch is worth it.

 

[OverlordBear]

Any one ever use federal tactical buck shot on turkey?? I have only killed a turkey with a bow and i want to try it with a shotgun. I have a couple of boxes of that stuff in my basement. It groups all on paper on a human silhouette at 50 yards just wondering if it would be viable on turkeys?

 

[winmag]

Any one ever use federal tactical buck shot on turkey?? I have only killed a turkey with a bow and i want to try it with a shotgun. I have a couple of boxes of that stuff in my basement. It groups all on paper on a human silhouette at 50 yards just wondering if it would be viable on turkeys?

Can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not, so I’m going to answer it like it’s not.

Typically states don’t allow shot sizes larger than #2 or so for spring turkeys. Also there wouldn’t be much left to eat after being hit with a load of buck shot.

 

[brushcreek]

Any one ever use federal tactical buck shot on turkey?? I have only killed a turkey with a bow and i want to try it with a shotgun. I have a couple of boxes of that stuff in my basement. It groups all on paper on a human silhouette at 50 yards just wondering if it would be viable on turkeys?

illegal in some states

 

[OverlordBear]

Can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not, so I’m going to answer it like it’s not.

Typically states don’t allow shot sizes larger than #2 or so for spring turkeys. Also there wouldn’t be much left to eat after being hit with a load of buck shot.

thank you this was definitely not sarcasm. I was asking out of my pure ignorance for the sport of turkey hunting. Thank you for the advice.

 

[mottlet]

The best turkey hunters I know all shoot TSS. Not because they shoot em at 70 yards or because they don't kill the majority of birds under 30 yards, but because they know that stuff happens and when it does, it helps to have the best. Toms hang up. Toms peer out from behind autumn olive thickets. Sometimes folks get overwhelmed by the excitement of a little black dinosaur screaming at em through the hardwoods and toms get hit and find a way to stay on their feet and haul ass, requiring another salvo. Not every time, or even most times, but enough of the time. And if the best turkey hunters I know had crystal balls, they'd only tote TSS on the days that a skeet load wouldn't suffice, but alas...

And the cost thing is kind of unfair. A year ago, a box of 150 gr. Barnes in .308 didn't cost 70 bucks either. Wish I'd have stocked up then, like I did on TSS, but again, alas...

 

[phutch30]

The way to go with TSS is handloading. My handload 3" #9 tss shells run about $5 a rnd, expensive yes but I probably spend more per day on coffee and snacks

 

[winmag]

The way to go with TSS is handloading. My handload 3" #9 tss shells run about $5 a rnd, expensive yes but I probably spend more per day on coffee and snacks

Exactly.

The only tools you need are a $30 roll crimper and a hull vise, which you can probably make yourself.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Exactly.

The only tools you need are a $30 roll crimper and a hull vise, which you can probably make yourself.

I don’t even use a hull vise.

 

[phutch30]

I don’t even use a hull vise.

me either, I just hold with my fingers

 

[jt13]

View attachment 178694

Not that anyone asked to bring this thread back to life but here you go. Speaks to the efficacy of TSS when combined with blind luck:

My wife made the 12ga bark this morning and the TSS had to stretch its legs. Started within 100 yards of a longbeard, 3 jakes, and a hen gobbling on the roost. They flew down about 85 yards in front of us and put on a darn fine show. The longbeard was non-commital but followed his jakes in to check out my decoy.

When he got to about 40 yards is when things got a little squirrelly. My wife pulled the trigger without disengaging the safety, tried to correct herself, and the movement spooked the jakes who were at about 20 yards. They started off and the tom followed their lead. I let out a hard cut and yelp to stop them, which worked better than I thought it would. She got on them, the gun barked, and into the dirt the tom went!

I estimated the range to be about 60 or so yards and never had the time or ability to use a range finder in the moment.... well when I got to the bird I looked back at our respective sitting locations and they looked FAR. I whipped out the rangefinder, hit the tree she was at, and looked at her in disbelief... 77.6 yards

I certainly wouldn't advise trying to intentionally pull that off and believe that 60 yards is the max effective and ethical range for our set up. However, here you go-- a longbeard killed at 75+ yards with 12ga 3" #9 Federal TSS

Edit: added necropsy photo