TSS vs Lead - Efficacy for Youth Turkey Hunting

[winmag]

I wanted to provide my thoughts on TSS vs Lead for turkeys, specifically as it applies to youth hunting. I do think TSS is a gamechanger for youth turkey hunting.

First some general guidelines for minimum pattern density and pellet penetration to ensure a clean kill with a head and neck shot. I'm not here to debate these but I'm sure we'll end up there. Also I don't care if you once killed a turkey at 90 yards by hitting it in the eyeball with 1 lead #7 1/2 pellet. If you meet the following guidelines (and aim well, of course) you will kill the turkey every single time.

Pattern Density: 100 pellets in a 10" circle (which is about 1.27 pellets per square inch if they were evenly distributed)
Pellet Penetration: 1.5"

Obviously higher shot weights recoil more than lower shot weights when launched at the same velocity. To achieve similar pattern density you must shoot a similar number of pellets. So lets compare TSS #10 to Lead #6.

TSS #10:
Muzzle Velocity 1100fps
Pellet Penetration at 40 Yards: 1.53"
Pellets in 1oz: 533
Recoil Energy with 7lb gun: 14 ft/lbs

Lead #6:
Muzzle Velocity 1100fps
Pellet Penetration at 40 Yards: 1.40"
Pellets in 1oz: 221
Recoil Energy with 7lb gun: 14 ft/lbs

Lead #6 shot weight needed to equal # of pellets in 1oz of TSS #10:
Muzzle Velocity 1100fps
Pellet Penetration at 40 Yards: 1.40"
Shot Charge Weight for 533 Pellets: 2.41oz
Recoil Energy with 7lb gun: 84 ft/lbs

Both TSS #10's and lead #6's run out of penetration to ensure a clean kill around 40 yards. To match the pattern density of 1 ounce of TSS #10's with lead #6's you would need 2.41 ounces of shot. You would need a 3 1/2" 10 gauge to fit that much lead into a shell. And that's 6x the recoil to achieve the same pattern density.

Can you kill a turkey with 1oz of lead #6's at 40 yards? Yes, but your gun better pattern well.

Does X more pellets in its head make it deader? No, not necessarily. But more pellets in 10" certainly won't hurt your chances.

Can't you limit shots to, say, 20 yards? Of course, but is everyone here spot on with their yardage estimates while their heart is pounding out of their chest as a gobbler struts in?

If I can set my kid up with a more effective gun/shell combo I'm going to do it. Although I will be robbing him of the pleasure of getting the crap kicked out of him by his turkey shotgun as I did when I was young.

 

[np307]

It's always good to see some numbers attached to things. I was going to ask if anybody actually questioned the vast superiority of TSS to lead still but then I saw the other TSS thread...

 

[1_pointer]

Thank you for the perspective!

 

[ImBillT]

Really no need to have 500 pellets at just 40yds. Kick it up to TSS 8s or 9s and extend your range beyond 40yds, OR save money and shoot less than 1oz.

While I don’t think it’s overkill, I don’t think you need a full 100 pellets in a 10” circle. A turkey head+neck is not tiny.

 

[winmag]

Personally I hunt with #9.5’s in 410 and #8.5’s in 12 gauge.

370gr (0.85 ounces) of #9.5’s is about 367 pellets and gets me to 50 yards before I run out of penetration.

1050gr (2.4 ounces) of #8.5’s is about 715 pellets and gets me to 70 yards before I run out of penetration.

I went down the rabbit hole of finding the upper limit of handloading turkey shells over the last couple years. Kind of ironic when my main goal is to call them in as close as possible. I haven’t bothered to pick up the 12 gauge in a couple years now.

I’m doing some patterning this weekend. I’ll post some photos of the patterns of the above loads.

 

[jt13]

Shot TSS today for the first time

I sighted in at 20/40 yards with some old turkey loads and then fired one shot of TSS at 40 to verify POI and one at 60 just to see what it'd do at that range. Gun is a Benelli SBE 1 with an XX Full Turkey (.668) choke. Ammo was Federal TSS 12ga, 3in 1-3/4oz, 9 shot.

I didn't take a photo at 40 but was well more than 100 hits in a 8" circle and 20+ in the head and neck. More impressive than the pattern was the impact. While the conventional turkey loads rocked the large cardboard box (shop vac box) weighted with a 6" steel rifle target a little, the TSS knocked it clean over... I couldn't believe it.

Below I attached the 60 yard target (my wife's beautiful homemade masterpiece) the circle is 8" in diameter and there is 55+/- hits including plenty in the kill zone. I would wager that with a choke designed for TSS it would be a significantly better pattern and lethal out to 70+

 

[phutch30]

Ive been handloading TSS for about 7yrs now. My current handload is 1.5 oz of #9 tss in two 20ga setups. Both put 330-340 pellets in the 10" at 40yds. Its expensive but well worth it imo

 

[glass eye]

Really no need to have 500 pellets at just 40yds. Kick it up to TSS 8s or 9s and extend your range beyond 40yds, OR save money and shoot less than 1oz.

While I don’t think it’s overkill, I don’t think you need a full 100 pellets in a 10” circle. A turkey head+neck is not tiny.

Not everything you see on the head and neck is vital. Kill zone is really like a small walnut on top of a pencil.

 

[.270Rem]

You may want to patent that target. Your wife is a fine artist.

Shot TSS today for the first time

I sighted in at 20/40 yards with some old turkey loads and then fired one shot of TSS at 40 to verify POI and one at 60 just to see what it'd do at that range. Gun is a Benelli SBE 1 with an XX Full Turkey (.668) choke. Ammo was Federal TSS 12ga, 3in 1-3/4oz, 9 shot.

I didn't take a photo at 40 but was well more than 100 hits in a 8" circle and 20+ in the head and neck. More impressive than the pattern was the impact. While the conventional turkey loads rocked the large cardboard box (shop vac box) weighted with a 6" steel rifle target a little, the TSS knocked it clean over... I couldn't believe it.

Below I attached the 60 yard target (my wife's beautiful homemade masterpiece) the circle is 8" in diameter and there is 55+/- hits including plenty in the kill zone. I would wager that with a choke designed for TSS it would be a significantly better pattern and lethal out to 70+

 

[ImBillT]

Not everything you see on the head and neck is vital. Kill zone is really like a small walnut on top of a pencil.

That may be, but it doesn’t matter.

Lead 6s to 40yds is almost universally accepted. It isn’t easy to get 100% patters at 40yds, but people do. Not everyone uses 3.5” loads, but people do. 2 1/4oz of lead 6s contains 506 pellets. A 30” circle(typical shotgun pattern) is 706.5 sq in. That’s .7162 pellets per square inch if you achieve a 100% pattern.(not all turkey hunters do) A 10” circle is 78.5 square inches. That’s 55 pellets. Tried and true. Commonly recommended. Widely considered effective.

The choice to recommend 100 pellets in a 10” circle was arbitrary.

Use 8s or 9s, pattern your shotgun, accept 60-65 pellets in a 10” circle as a considerable improvement upon normal recommendations with lead, and shoot turkey to 55-60yds.

Edited to move a decimal.

 

[winmag]

To each his own, I suppose.

The “have enough pattern” argument is like the “use enough gun” argument. Some people chase elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor and I won’t do that either.

For what it’s worth, 100 pellets in 10” seems to be the most referenced standard by hunting magazines and ammunition manufacturers big and small (Winchester and Nitro).

 

[jt13]

You may want to patent that target. Your wife is a fine artist.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

For 30rounds I can literally buy a new gun... gonna be a hard pass for me bob.

 

[FLS]

I shoot TSS and it is very lethal. That said Ive killed 3 so far this season. Doubled at 15 yds and and a single at 25. All could have been killed with a dove / skeet load of 7.5 lead. The focus seems to be shifting from how close can I get one, to how far can I kill one.

 

[winmag]

I agree the focus should stay on calling them in close, but it is fun to tinker.

A couple patterns from yesterday. I wasn’t concerned about point of impact since I’m still finalizing my loads for the year.

Savage 301 3” 410
TSS #9.5
220 pellets in 10” at 40 yards

Remington 870 3 1/2” 12 Gauge
TSS #8.5
353 pellets in 10” at 40 yards

 

[np307]

View attachment 178696View attachment 178697
View attachment 178700

For 30rounds I can literally buy a new gun... gonna be a hard pass for me bob.

For me, the cost is well worth having a very effective load in a smaller gauge, which is what tss was implemented for. I get that it can be a hard price tag to justify for most, but most of the live-to-turkey-hunt people I know don't mind it (or reload).

 

[mtmuley]

I shoot TSS and it is very lethal. That said Ive killed 3 so far this season. Doubled at 15 yds and and a single at 25. All could have been killed with a dove / skeet load of 7.5 lead. The focus seems to be shifting from how close can I get one, to how far can I kill one.

Long range Turkey hunting? mtmuley

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Im usually the guy saying, buy good ammo but even I have some common sense limits. I mean when it’s way more than 500 nitro I think you have to step back and think about it.

 

[winmag]

Ammo will always be one of the least expensive parts of any turkey hunt. I bet I have more money in beef jerky per bird than I do in ammo per bird. Gasoline per bird has to be 10x ammo per bird.

 

[N2TRKYS]

870 20ga with 21” barrel 1 5/8 oz of #9s at 40 yards.