Treaty rules continue in to pop up in wildlife news

[Rhcuam]

Our history, really if you want to be brutally blunt about it is about as white supremacist as it comes. We felt entitled to enslave black people and just displace indigenous people, as needed.

Those are original sins that trouble us to today.

Just stop! They displaced and enslaved the tribes that were there before they were. Natives enslaved people, the same with Africans.
In Indian does it it’s OK. A white man does it it’s a grievance that needs to be paid back for the next 2000 years. Get real.

 

[Rhcuam]

^^Exactly!^^
Here's just a short list of the MANY broken treaties.

Broken US-Indigenous treaties: A timeline

• Treaty With the Delawares/Treaty of Fort Pitt (1778) ...
• Treaty of Fort Stanwix (1784) ...
• Treaty of Hopewell (1785-86) ...
• Treaty of Canandaigua/Pickering Treaty (1794) ...
• Treaty of Greenville (1795) ...
• Treaty with the Sioux (1805) ...
• Treaty of Fort Wayne (1809) ...
• Indian Removal Act (1830)

More items...
•
Nov 17, 2021

I for one, am glad we broke everyone of those treaties. Otherwise we just all be on the East Coast. All crowded on a little piece of shoreline.

Gotta love U.S. expansion.

Furthermore where every you live in Nevada was probably “stolen land”, so turn it back over. Walk the walk! If you going to talk the talk.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Natives enslaved people,

Please cite resources for the premise that Native Americans practiced multi-generational chattel slavery?

 

[Rhcuam]

Please cite resources for the premise that Native Americans practices multi-generational chattel slavery?

Did Indians take captives?
Did they use captives as slaves?
Did they trade said captives?

Multigenerational slavery bad
Single generation slavery ok???

Tribes weren’t nearly as generous as the U.S. government. The took who they wanted (women to rape and force into marriages and children to force into slavery) and killed the rest.
Try again. And let me know when you turn your land back over, you thief!

 

[VikingsGuy]

Did Indians take captives?
Did they use captives as slaves?
Did they trade said captives?

Multigenerational slavery bad
Single generation slavery ok???

Tribes weren’t nearly as generous as the U.S. government. The took who they wanted (women to rape and force into marriages and children to force into slavery) and killed the rest.
Try again. And let me know when you turn your land back over, you thief!

Are you suggesting Native Americans consistently were crueler and more outrageous in their treatment of other peoples than the Europeans were as they settled the Western Hemisphere?

And yes, breeding, buy and selling for all time anyone with black skin because they were somehow less human, and all the depravities associated with maintaining that system, is worse than incidental post war slavery that was common for much of antiquity.

 

[Rhcuam]

Are you suggesting Native Americans consistently were crueler and more outrageous in their treatment of other peoples than the Europeans were as they settled the Western Hemisphere?

Those were simple questions. You could say yes or no questions. I’ll post them again so you don’t have to scroll back up to answer them.
Did Indians take captives?
Did they use captives as slaves?
Did they trade said captives?

Multigenerational slavery bad
Single generation slavery ok???

 

[VikingsGuy]

Those were simple questions. You could say yes or no questions. I’ll post them again so you don’t have to scroll back up to answer them.
Did Indians take captives?
Did they use captives as slaves?
Did they trade said captives?

Multigenerational slavery bad
Single generation slavery ok???

You don’t get to ask me questions in avoidance of mine.

 

[406dn]

Just stop! They displaced and enslaved the tribes that were there before they were. Natives enslaved people, the same with Africans.
In Indian does it it’s OK. A white man does it it’s a grievance that needs to be paid back for the next 2000 years. Get real.

Hey, I'll stop when you stop. Your spilling bile left and right.

It's a part of who we are. It's a part of who I am. My great grandfather was a confederate soldier proud enough of it to have it on his headstone.

Humans have endless facets. It happens that in this country's history, there are some dark chapters. Not as dark as say what Germany has to acknowledge, but it's not all peaches and cream.

 

[Derek44]

Indians???? How did this discussion sail to the other side of the ocean?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Indians???? How did this discussion sail to the other side of the ocean?

Columbus failed to renew his OnX subscription.

 

[longbow51]

In regards to the non-lake part of this thread, and the self-flagellation many Americans seem to enjoy, it doesn't seem to be present elsewhere. I have relatives who are in international business, and, wherever they go, people seem to be proud of their culture (and this is Europe, not the East or Africa).

And, the French don't hate the Germans or the Italians because of 2 wars. The discussion has come up as to why not? The answer was generally that their history is much older than ours, and they have always had times of barbarity, and bad leaders, so pretty hard to point the finger. Think Spanish Inquisition, or French Revolution, where things got a bit out of hand. Seems like some horse-riding folks from the Steppes caused quite the ruckus for a while too.

Yet, their descendants don't spend their time wallowing in guilt for past sins in which they had no part.

This seems to be uniquely a United States issue.

And, at the same time, we buy half (at least, probably 75%) of our stuff from China, where there is active slavery, and want to encourage child slaves in Africa to dig in cobalt mines to build more batteries.

 

[SwaggyD]

Indians????

I used this term to my buddy who is native a couple weeks ago. He corrected me and told me ‘native, you sound ignorant'. I replied with, "you better tell poplar and browning high schools to change their nicknames then."

 

[SAJ-99]

Those were simple questions. You could say yes or no questions. I’ll post them again so you don’t have to scroll back up to answer them.
Did Indians take captives?
Did they use captives as slaves?
Did they trade said captives?

Multigenerational slavery bad
Single generation slavery ok???

Let see where we are now in this argument. Past generations transgressions shouldn’t be held against white people today but it’s ok to use it as an argument against natives trying to enforce a past treaty.

Yep, about as I expected.

 

[Rhcuam]

You don’t get to ask me questions in avoidance of mine.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Rhcuam]

Hey, I'll stop when you stop. Your spilling bile left and right.

It's a part of who we are. It's a part of who I am. My great grandfather was a confederate soldier proud enough of it to have it on his headstone.

Humans have endless facets. It happens that in this country's history, there are some dark chapters. Not as dark as say what Germany has to acknowledge, but it's not all peaches and cream.

Absolutely just just don’t act like it was the white American man that was only perpetrator of slavery. Disingenuous.

 

[SAJ-99]

Absolutely just just don’t act like it was the white American man that was only perpetrator of slavery. Disingenuous.

I don’t think he did. You keep arguing that someone is but I don’t see that point actually made anywhere.

 

[Rhcuam]

Let see where we are now in this argument. Past generations transgressions shouldn’t be held against white people today but it’s ok to use it as an argument against natives trying to enforce a past treaty.

Yep, about as I expected.

No, it just gets old people painting natives/Indians/1st people/whatever as pure as the driven snow. The fact is they migrated here just like the white settlers. They did not spring up from the prairies or fall from the clouds like rain drops. More than likely they ancestors walked over the land bridge, and came down through Canada.
I’m sure there was plenty of murdering, raping, and pillaging down on both sides.
Do we owe them anything no. Do the Romans owe the Germanic tribes that were conquered, also no. But modern Germans doesn’t seem to be continuing to dwell on it.
They have every opportunity to live and prosper just the same as I do in the greatest nation in the world. But portion of them, they would rather live on a shitty reservation and then complain about the conditions. Because they feel it is owed to them.
They want to be a sovereign nation, but then also live off the teet of the federal government.

I would love if both sides could come to an agreement. Acknowledge that some shit happened and somethings that got said that was not entirely accurate on how things were really were going to go down. And move forward together. It’s not an 1850 anymore. It’s never gonna go back to that way either. They are never going to ride the prairie and hunt buffalo again. they’re not getting their lands back either. But that’s crazy talk. Both sides would rather have them sit in some crummy reservation housing arguing over crumbs.

 

[SAJ-99]

No, it just gets old people painting natives/Indians/1st people/whatever as pure as the driven snow. The fact is they migrated here just like the white settlers. They did not spring up from the prairies or fall from the clouds like rain drops. More than likely they ancestors walked over the land bridge, and came down through Canada.
I’m sure there was plenty of murdering, raping, and pillaging down on both sides.
Do we owe them anything no. Do the Romans owe the Germanic tribes that were conquered, also no. But modern Germans doesn’t seem to be continuing to dwell on it.
They have every opportunity to live and prosper just the same as I do in the greatest nation in the world. But portion of them, they would rather live on a shitty reservation and then complain about the conditions. Because they feel it is owed to them.
They want to be a sovereign nation, but then also live off the teet of the federal government.

Again, I think you are arguing points that are off topic. The question is about a treaty, a legally binding agreement, made by a tribe regarding the part of a lake.

Some tribes “enslaved”, some didn’t. No one has argued it is right in some case and not others. It is odd you act offended by something no one said.

 

[Rhcuam]

Again, I think you are arguing points that are off topic. The question is about a treaty, a legally binding agreement, made by a tribe regarding the part of a lake.

Some tribes “enslaved”, some didn’t. No one has argued it is right in some case and not others. It is odd you act offended by something no one said.

See post 101.

 

[BuzzH]

No, it just gets old people painting natives/Indians/1st people/whatever as pure as the driven snow. The fact is they migrated here just like the white settlers. They did not spring up from the prairies or fall from the clouds like rain drops. More than likely they ancestors walked over the land bridge, and came down through Canada.
I’m sure there was plenty of murdering, raping, and pillaging down on both sides.
Do we owe them anything no. Do the Romans owe the Germanic tribes that were conquered, also no. But modern Germans doesn’t seem to be continuing to dwell on it.
They have every opportunity to live and prosper just the same as I do in the greatest nation in the world. But portion of them, they would rather live on a shitty reservation and then complain about the conditions. Because they feel it is owed to them.
They want to be a sovereign nation, but then also live off the teet of the federal government.

I would love if both sides could come to an agreement. Acknowledge that some shit happened and somethings that got said that was not entirely accurate on how things were really were going to go down. And move forward together. It’s not an 1850 anymore. It’s never gonna go back to that way either. They are never going to ride the prairie and hunt buffalo again. they’re not getting their lands back either. But that’s crazy talk. Both sides would rather have them sit in some crummy reservation housing arguing over crumbs.

Both sides did come to an agreement...it's called a treaty.