Transferring public lands and shrinking the NPS for the good of hunting.

[MTGomer]

What a rage bait title that is.

Anyway, since we are in the era of shaking things up, perhaps it’s time to convert NPS national monuments into BLM national monuments.

We should be able to hunt bighorn sheep and mule deer in Organ Pipe.

Is there a down side and why can’t we?

 

[Treeshark]

Anyway, since we are in the era of shaking things up, perhaps it’s time to convert NPS national monuments into BLM national monuments.

Or perhaps state monuments/parks?

 

[BigHornRam]

What a rage bait title that is.

Anyway, since we are in the era of shaking things up, perhaps it’s time to convert NPS national monuments into BLM national monuments.

We should be able to hunt bighorn sheep and mule deer in Organ Pipe.

Is there a down side and why can’t we?

If the deer and sheep populations are large enough to support hunting, I'm in favor. What is Arizonan's general concensus?

 

[MTGomer]

If the deer and sheep populations are large enough to support hunting, I'm in favor. What is Arizonan's general concensus?

It borders 40a, 46a where sheep are hunted, the TO rez where they’re hunted and Sonora where they’re hunted. It is the size of a large hunting district. Certainly it can sustain a tag a year

 

[Forkyfinder]

I think theres room for spaces leaving ecosystems largely untouched with an effort to minimize mortality caused from humans and excluding hunting.

I get your point though. I bet if an elk/sheep/moose/goat/buffalo tag were auctioned of in YNP - youd have several million dollars.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Your issue isn't one of ownership or managing authority. Your issue is one of rulemaking.

A national monument under the NPS can allow for hunting. You just need to find out if you need a law to expressly permit it, or a rule change to allow it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Your issue isn't one of ownership or managing authority. Your issue is one of rulemaking.

A national monument under the NPS can allow for hunting. You just need to find out if you need a law to expressly permit it, or a rule change to allow it.

Know any good lobbyists?

 

[MTGomer]

I think theres room for spaces leaving ecosystems largely untouched with an effort to minimize mortality caused from humans and excluding hunting.

I get your point though. I bet if an elk/sheep/moose/goat/buffalo tag were auctioned of in YNP - youd have several million dollars.

it’s not untouched. It’s the most heavily visited place in that part of the state.
It has a visitor center, maintained 2wd roads, developed campgrounds and picnic areas etc. Between visitors, illegal immigrants and those that chase them, it’s the most human impacted stretch of rural borderlands in the state.

In the nearly adjacent Sonoran Desert National Monument managed by BLM, you could spend days and never see another person

 

[MTGomer]

Your issue isn't one of ownership or managing authority. Your issue is one of rulemaking.

A national monument under the NPS can allow for hunting. You just need to find out if you need a law to expressly permit it, or a rule change to allow it.

Sounds like I need to find someone to lobby who has the cash to pay the lobbyist (you) to lobby the right folks.

 

[LuketheDog]

I think theres room for spaces leaving ecosystems largely untouched with an effort to minimize mortality caused from humans and excluding hunting.

I get your point though. I bet if an elk/sheep/moose/goat/buffalo tag were auctioned of in YNP - youd have several million dollars.

I'm currently reading The Last Stand by Michael Punke, I'm amazed at the beating Yellowstone took before enjoying it's current status. In my opinion that place deserves to be left alone for the rest of human existence...

 

[Bonasababy]

What a rage bait title that is.

Anyway, since we are in the era of shaking things up, perhaps it’s time to convert NPS national monuments into BLM national monuments.

We should be able to hunt bighorn sheep and mule deer in Organ Pipe.

Is there a down side and why can’t we?

Doug Burgum, is that you?

 

[MTGomer]

I'm currently reading The Last Stand by Michael Punke, I'm amazed at the beating Yellowstone took before enjoying it's current status. In my opinion that place deserves to be left alone for the rest of human existence...

I agree. Aside from providing access from Gardiner to Cooke City, I’ve always felt that Yellowstone should be a series of trailheads on the park’s border.

I actually posted something similar on Hunt Talk a few years ago and I swear Rinella read it because he said it nearly word for word on a podcast a few months later. Maybe just a coincidence.

 

[MTGomer]

Doug Burgum, is that you?

I thought he was supposed to be one of the bad guys?

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Your issue isn't one of ownership or managing authority. Your issue is one of rulemaking.

A national monument under the NPS can allow for hunting. You just need to find out if you need a law to expressly permit it, or a rule change to allow it.

Sounds like rule change that would need Congressional approval. Or the other option with Sharpie?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sounds like I need to find someone to lobby who has the cash to pay the lobbyist (you) to lobby the right folks.

I don't do federal work. I can recommend someone for you if you are serious though.

Sounds like rule change that would need Congressional approval. Or the other option with Sharpie?

It depends on existing statutes and how the monument was designated. I don't know for sure which path it would take.

 

[Bonasababy]

I thought he was supposed to be one of the bad guys?

I think so--you are focusing just on hunting--my point is the strong potential for other adverse impacts. Be careful what you wish for.

As mentioned by others hunting can be allowed in monuments now.

Resource extraction, pumping CO2 into the ground underneath monuments, and other things ain't as kosher--but the proposed change would sure make that easier IMO.

 

[MTGomer]

Resource extraction, pumping CO2 into the ground underneath monuments, and other things ain't as kosher--but the proposed change would sure make that easier IMO.

While this thread is about monuments as a whole, and that we should be able to hunt on them, just like we already can in other ones IE/: Bears Ears, Escalante, SDNM, in the specific example given (Organ Pipe) there’s too much designated wilderness to allow for commercial extraction.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

While this thread is about monuments as a whole, and that we should be able to hunt on them, just like we already can in other ones IE/: Bears Ears, Escalante, SDNM, in the specific example given (Organ Pipe) there’s too much designated wilderness to allow for commercial extraction.

Wilderness Act does not prohibit mineral surveys done within certain parameters (like motorized things) of designated wilderness. Exemptions could then be granted. Long shot, sure, yet there may be such a challenge brought to current SCOTUS. Wilderness Act also exempts all pre-existing mineral claims from limitations.

 

[bullbugle]

I'm currently reading The Last Stand by Michael Punke, I'm amazed at the beating Yellowstone took before enjoying it's current status. In my opinion that place deserves to be left alone for the rest of human existence...

Great Wyoming author. Would also recommend Ridgeline.

 

[Bonasababy]

Wilderness Act does not prohibit mineral surveys done within certain parameters (like motorized things) of designated wilderness. Exemptions could then be granted. Long shot, sure, yet there may be such a challenge brought to current SCOTUS. Wilderness Act also exempts all pre-existing mineral claims from limitations.

This is what I assumed. What leads to a decision to have BLM administer a monument vs NPS is also something I assumed hinged at least somewhat on the presence of resources under the ground. This switch to BLM then has the potential create more risk in that regard--With this administration, it should be clear by now laws don't seem to matter to them. And as noted if the only reason for it is to allow hunting, that switch is not needed-- there are other ways.

Just my take--I do not have the experience some of the federal folks out west do on this though, our BLM lands are very limited here. I have been following what Burgum wanted to do while governor and assume that sure won't change now that he has both some higher authority and the ear of the President.