Too cold for tractor?

[406dn]

Okay, I'll share what I know concerning #2 diesel and how I handle it.

As mentioned above I worked for 28 years in a oil refinery, testing laboratory. Among other things, I tested a lot of diesel.

So, in no particular order

Diesel will suspend, dissolve, hold more water than gasoline will. Since their respective densities are closer than gasoline and water, it takes longer for water to fall to the bottom with diesel. How to handle it? Do not EVER buy diesel at a station if you see they are getting a delivery. Every delivery stirs up the water at the bottom of the holding tank. If you buy as they are getting a delivery, you are greatly increasing your chance of getting wet diesel.

Refineries in the northern US make a summer and winter grade of #2 diesel. They cover the winter very well with the winter grade leaving the refinery. But if you filled a can with diesel in August, and go to use it in January, it will gel at distinctly warmer temperatures than will winter grade diesel.

The refinery where I worked put more #1 diesel into #2 diesel blends during the winter than they did in the summer. That obviously helps with the pour point and the wax appearance test. Often it can be the wax falling out, that plugs the fuel filter. That is one reason why I add #1 diesel during cold snaps below -15F give or take.

#1 diesel has less lubricity than #2 diesel. So if used in warmer weather, it might cause engine wear. So, I don't ever go with straight #1 diesel. You also will get less milage, whenever you are using #1.


So here is how I manage my diesel truck. I have NEVER purchased a diesel additive. Oil refineries add them while the diesel is being produced. In the winter, if I'm just knocking around and a tank of fuel might last two weeks, I NEVER fill the tank past half full. That leaves enough room to top off with enough #1 to keep you from gelling in most any conceivable temperatures you'd see in Montana. If I've topped off a tank with #1, I drive that tank down to, say a quarter tank. Then the next fill, is either with #1 or #2, temperature depending. That fill is to a half tank. Then once sub minus ten degrees are in the rear view mirror, go back to putting #2 in without a worry. The only time I fill a tank entirely in the winter with #2 is if I know that will get used before a cold snap is forecast.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Depends a lot on what vintage of diesel you are talking about something from the 50s vs 70s vs 90s is a lot different in how well they start.

Additive, small shot of ether, good batteries/cables, and plugging it in will help regardless though.

 

[Irrelevant]

Lemme help you guys stereotype us Washingtonians a little more.


So I forgot I threw away my block heater because it kept tripping the breaker and of course I'm sure I said to myself "I'll get that later" well now is later and as you probably (hopefully?) guessed they're all sold out. So while I peruse this little online shop called Amazon, what size should I be looking for? 200W going to be big enough? That's what I previously had.

By the way, I don't have a real tractor just a little 23hp Yanmar, bought it last year

 

[406dn]

Depends a lot on what vintage of diesel you are talking about something from the 50s vs 70s vs 90s is a lot different in how well they start.

Additive, small shot of ether, good batteries/cables, and plugging it in will help regardless though.

Any diesel that old will be really skanky.

All of the diesel now produced to vehicles is ultra low sulfur diesel. There are plus and minus about that, but generally the diesel produce today is lighter than years non by. The really heavy molecules are higher in sulfur. With stripping the sulphur from them, the molecule is often cracked into two or more molecules, too light for diesel.

 

[406dn]

Lemme help you guys stereotype us Washingtonians a little more.


So I forgot I threw away my block heater because it kept tripping the breaker and of course I'm sure I said to myself "I'll get that later" well now is later and as you probably (hopefully?) guessed they're all sold out. So while I peruse this little online shop called Amazon, what size should I be looking for? 200W going to be big enough? That's what I previously had.

By the way, I don't have a real tractor just a little 23hp Yanmar, bought it last year

If your tractor is in a shelter, you might get enough heat to help with a heat lamp.

 

[BrentD]

I've gelled my JD twice. It sucks big time. The fuel filter and separator are the weak links in the chain.

There are different fuel treatments for proactively treating fuel vs. dealing with an already gelled system.

I've been told that too much of the proactive treatment can be as bad as too little.

Biodiesel gels more easily than nonBioldiesel.

Almost all diesel is biodiesel these days, even though there may not be label on the pump.

Block heaters save your battery - by making it easier to spin that engine to get ignition.

A hydraulic heater will help with the cold hydraulic oil on your 3 point, FEL, and everywhere else.

Do not even think of using starter fluid on a diesel tractor.

Tonight, I'll be kicking my pick up out into the snow and putting the tractor in the garage. Assuming it will start. (12 F right now).

 

[rogerthat]

Okay, I'll share what I know concerning #2 diesel and how I handle it.

As mentioned above I worked for 28 years in a oil refinery, testing laboratory. Among other things, I tested a lot of diesel.

So, in no particular order

Diesel will suspend, dissolve, hold more water than gasoline will. Since their respective densities are closer than gasoline and water, it takes longer for water to fall to the bottom with diesel. How to handle it? Do not EVER buy diesel at a station if you see they are getting a delivery. Every delivery stirs up the water at the bottom of the holding tank. If you buy as they are getting a delivery, you are greatly increasing your chance of getting wet diesel.

Refineries in the northern US make a summer and winter grade of #2 diesel. They cover the winter very well with the winter grade leaving the refinery. But if you filled a can with diesel in August, and go to use it in January, it will gel at distinctly warmer temperatures than will winter grade diesel.

The refinery where I worked put more #1 diesel into #2 diesel blends during the winter than they did in the summer. That obviously helps with the pour point and the wax appearance test. Often it can be the wax falling out, that plugs the fuel filter. That is one reason why I add #1 diesel during cold snaps below -15F give or take.

#1 diesel has less lubricity than #2 diesel. So if used in warmer weather, it might cause engine wear. So, I don't ever go with straight #1 diesel. You also will get less milage, whenever you are using #1.


So here is how I manage my diesel truck. I have NEVER purchased a diesel additive. Oil refineries add them while the diesel is being produced. In the winter, if I'm just knocking around and a tank of fuel might last two weeks, I NEVER fill the tank past half full. That leaves enough room to top off with enough #1 to keep you from gelling in most any conceivable temperatures you'd see in Montana. If I've topped off a tank with #1, I drive that tank down to, say a quarter tank. Then the next fill, is either with #1 or #2, temperature depending. That fill is to a half tank. Then once sub minus ten degrees are in the rear view mirror, go back to putting #2 in without a worry. The only time I fill a tank entirely in the winter with #2 is if I know that will get used before a cold snap is forecast.

So if I fill my tractor with summer #2 I don’t have anything to worry about until -30 F?

 

[rogerthat]

I've gelled my JD twice. It sucks big time. The fuel filter and separator are the weak links in the chain.

There are different fuel treatments for proactively treating fuel vs. dealing with an already gelled system.

I've been told that too much of the proactive treatment can be as bad as too little.

Biodiesel gels more easily than nonBioldiesel.

Almost all diesel is biodiesel these days, even though there may not be label on the pump.

Block heaters save your battery - by making it easier to spin that engine to get ignition.

A hydraulic heater will help with the cold hydraulic oil on your 3 point, FEL, and everywhere else.

Do not even think of using starter fluid on a diesel tractor.

Tonight, I'll be kicking my pick up out into the snow and putting the tractor in the garage. Assuming it will start. (12 F right now).

How come you shouldn’t use starting fluid?

 

[406dn]

So if I fill my tractor with summer #2 I don’t have anything to worry about until -30 F?

Winter grade is ~-30. Summer grade is like 10F. I've been retired nearly 11 year going off memory.

So you'd have a problem before -30F.

 

[rogerthat]

Winter grade is ~-30. Summer grade is like 10F. I've been retired nearly 11 year going off memory.

So you'd have a problem before -30F.

Ok. Thanks. Summer grade is what I had in my tractor

 

[FI460]

Ok. Thanks. Summer grade is what I had in my tractor

I believe it's because glow plugs are hot before you crank the ignition. Potentially pre-detonate the starting fluid.

 

[rjthehunter]

I believe it's because glow plugs are hot before you crank the ignition. Potentially pre-detonate the starting fluid.

^ This. They ignite off of high compression vs a spark plug like gas does.

There's a lengthy explanation for pre-detonation, but in simple terms, the fuel goes bang before it should, sometimes causing pistons, rings, rods, or even crankshafts damage.

 

[Irrelevant]

Ok. Thanks. Summer grade is what I had in my tractor

Same here!

 

[406dn]

Almost all diesel is biodiesel these days, even though there may not be label on the pump.

I think that might be a regional thing. I do not often see it out here.

It would be easy enough to tell, by the smell.

But , yes, biodiesel does not perform well in cold temperatures.

 

[Forkyfinder]

How come you shouldn’t use starting fluid?

You CAN blow things up with it - if you aren't careful.

Sort of like you CAN blow up HT with an opinion about Matt Rinella's views - though I guess there's not much of a careful way to do that

 

[BrentD]

How come you shouldn’t use starting fluid?

From what I've been told it's because diesel ignites fuel with compression, not a spark. Why exactly this matters, I can't say I know. But I got a lecture on it from the dealer, and I've heard this many times from others that actually know and use diesels daily.

 

[rogerthat]

From what I've been told it's because diesel ignites fuel with compression, not a spark. Why exactly this matters, I can't say I know. But I got a lecture on it from the dealer, and I've heard this many times from others that actually know and use diesels daily.

Interesting. We have used it to start engines in cold weather including diesels since I was a kid on the ranch. Usually just a shot into the air intake. But I’m sure that wouldn’t be copacetic nowadays. As well I’m sure we do all sorts of crap you’re not supposed to.

 

[406dn]

Diesel engines have considerably higher compression ratios than gasoline engines.

When a gasoline engine pings, or knocks, that is from the gasoline igniting before the spark plug fired.

The reason putting gasoline into a diesel fuel tank is bad, bad ,bad... is that if you then drive the gasoline will ignite before the cylinder has reached its full compression. So the igniting fuel is pushing the piston one way, while the cam shaft is pushing the other direction.

I suspect ether takes minimal compression to self ignite.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Interesting. We have used it to start engines in cold weather including diesels since I was a kid on the ranch. Usually just a shot into the air intake. But I’m sure that wouldn’t be copacetic nowadays. As well I’m sure we do all sorts of crap you’re not supposed to.

cant use it on HOT glowplugs or intake heater. Otherwise ... okay.

 

[ismith]

Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost Diesel Fuel Anti-Gel 26 oz - Ace Hardware

Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost is a winterizer/anti-gel that is used in the cold winter months to prevent fuel gelling and keep fuel filters from plugging with ice and wax. When temperatures drop, paraffin (wax) in ULSD fuel will gel stopping fuel from flowing through the engine, and water...

www.acehardware.com