Tom's finding hens

[tdoubled]

I have a question to ask turkey hunters with more experience than myself. This is my first season chasing turkeys, but let me provide a little background.

I've been scouting an area for bears and always noticed a flock of turkeys at the head of the basin. I'd seen at least one strutter in the group and made a play on opening weekend. Well I wasn't the only person with plans to hunt this specific flock. Long story short, I ended up hunting with the other guy that showed up and we made a spot and stalk play on the flock. We confirmed that there was only one tom in the group. The tom then flushed out of the brush on his side and he was able to fill his tag. My question is this, how likely is it that another tom will find this group of hens? I'm hunting in Idaho, very steep country with a mix of desert, sagebrush and a few pines. Then a creek bottom with thick willow type brush. Within this specific drainage, I've only seen this small flock, though there is plenty of other great habitat. Any other turkeys would have to come from neighboring areas, but the neighboring areas are other steep desert country, very few trees, with no private agriculture lands very close. How far do toms travel to find hens to breed? How do the toms even find the hens? Do the toms just search areas where they know hens are at? Do they track them somehow via some kind of scent? For the last two weeks, these hens have roosted in the same trees and fed in the same general area. Thoughts?

 

[madtom]

I’d be interested to hear what you see if you keep tabs on that group. If there truly isn’t a subordinate tom in the drainage, my guess is the hens will disperse to find a tom elsewhere.

 

[tdoubled]

I’d be interested to hear what you see if you keep tabs on that group. If there truly isn’t a subordinate tom in the drainage, my guess is the hens will disperse to find a tom elsewhere.

So is it the hens finding toms to get breed or do toms make their rounds like a buck would in search of does?

 

[madtom]

So is it the hens finding toms to get breed or do toms make their rounds like a buck would in search of does?

Generally speaking, hens seek and move to toms. Calling a tom in is actually forcing him to behave contrary to normal

 

[Outdoor-enthusiast24]

It is the hens job to find the Tom and decide when she is ready to breed. Most tom's will respond to yelps from a hen with a gobble to let them know where they are. Hens will then usually move in and when in visual sight of the tom he begins strutting to show his stuff and bring them in. If the hens have been bread by the original tom in the group they may spread out up to 5 miles to nest, dispersing the group. They are very similar to elk in that the Bull will bugle and let everyone know where he is, but the ladies come to him.

 

[tdoubled]

Interesting... I wasn't expecting the hens to be the ones searching for toms, but good to know. I'll continue to hunt this drainage for spring bear, so I'll be able to keep my eyes out for turkeys and potentially any other strutters that may be in the area. And I should be able to tell if the hens take off in search of a tom to get bred. I'll post updates here as the season progresses. Thanks for the input.

 

[Ben Lamb]

First time turkey hunter, long time listener.

So if I'm seeing single hens, do I assume they've already been bred, and they won't be looking for Toms? They've been chatty over the last couple of weeks, and gobbling up a storm around here. My season starts this weekend, and I've got some spots scouted, etc where they've been roosting, and where I've seen individual hens & solo Jakes.

I'll take my answer off the air. Go Pack, beat whomever we hate this week.

 

[madtom]

First time turkey hunter, long time listener.

So if I'm seeing single hens, do I assume they've already been bred, and they won't be looking for Toms? They've been chatty over the last couple of weeks, and gobbling up a storm around here. My season starts this weekend, and I've got some spots scouted, etc where they've been roosting, and where I've seen individual hens & solo Jakes.

I'll take my answer off the air. Go Pack, beat whomever we hate this week.

If you're seeing lone hens toward late morning or mid-day, I would guess those are hens leaving a tom to go lay eggs. Hens lay one egg per day for ~10 days before they begin incubating the nest. During those ~10 days, they spend the early mornings near the tom and being bred, then leaving to lay the day's egg.

If that's what is happening, you could expect to find receptive toms later in the morning when their hens have left and they're more desperate to find remaining hens.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If you're seeing lone hens toward late morning or mid-day, I would guess those are hens leaving a tom to go lay eggs. Hens lay one egg per day for ~10 days before they begin incubating the nest. During those ~10 days, they spend the early mornings near the tom and being bred, then leaving to lay the day's egg.

If that's what is happening, you could expect to find receptive toms later in the morning when their hens have left and they're more desperate to find remaining hens.

Awesome. Thanks!

Second question: Swamps or uplands? I've seen them in both and have both close by.

 

[madtom]

Awesome. Thanks!

Second question: Swamps or uplands? I've seen them in both and have both close by.

Wherever you find one that wants to play. Maybe someone else has better advice on that.

 

[Perlodid]

Awesome. Thanks!

Second question: Swamps or uplands? I've seen them in both and have both close by.

For some MI specific advice (I hunt SE MI turkeys) - as long as you are seeing them in both areas either is totally fine but it's worth spending a bit of extra time upland in the late mornings/afternoons because you're more likely to find sandy soil for dustbaths/scratching + extra visibility for a tom which they seem to like. Don't be afraid to make some aggressive moves if you feel like it's the right thing to do either. The last 3 turkeys I have killed have all been spot and stalk without calling at all.

 

[Ben Lamb]

For some MI specific advice (I hunt SE MI turkeys) - as long as you are seeing them in both areas either is totally fine but it's worth spending a bit of extra time upland in the late mornings/afternoons because you're more likely to find sandy soil for dustbaths/scratching + extra visibility for a tom which they seem to like. Don't be afraid to make some aggressive moves if you feel like it's the right thing to do either. The last 3 turkeys I have killed have all been spot and stalk without calling at all.

Super helpful. Thank you!

 

[Wally Dog]

Gobblers wander looking for ladies. They'll be found.

 

[tdoubled]

Gobblers wander looking for ladies. They'll be found.

I hope so... since i'll be in the drainage area trying to fill a bear tag. Getting out this Friday, in the AM. May just be a glassing session for both turkeys and bears, and i'm debating on what gun to bring up. A rifle for bear, or shotgun in case there's a strutter that's found the hens... may have to do the rifle and my kiddo's tiny 20 gauge. Just in case.

 

[tdoubled]

Quick update: I had time this morning to go out and glass for bears and check on my flock of hens. A little while after first light I found the flock off the roost, heading towards their usually feeding area. There was a strutter with them. I only watched them for a few mins before I started the half mile hike to their end of the basin. The last I had seen them, after going about a 1/4 mile, they were feeding just on the other side of a knob. I was going to lose sight of them at this point until I reached the knob. But by then, i may be just on top of them. Once i was near the knob, i slowly moved in, scanning the area around me as I climbed. I spotted a hen about 50 yards ahead of me, feeding in and out of some brush. I then army crawled another 20 yards to where I could barely make out their heads and outlines while laying down. The tom made an appearance a few mins later and I took a shot. Then another and another, since it seemed he might be only wounded and making a break for it. Anyway, I was able to fill my tag and pack a bird off the mountain. It was a younger tom, maybe a jake, but i'm not sure how to tell the difference other than the jake being smaller with a not as full fan and a shorter beard. I counted the same number of hens, and this was the only male in the group. Maybe the jakes are more prone to wander, looking for lonely hens without a tom. I'm assuming the jakes get beat up and pushed out of flocks or other areas with a dominant tom. But i was glad to fill my tag. I'll still be hunting the area for bears, and i'm interested to see if another jake/tom makes it way to the hens. One worry i have is disturbing the hens. The must be nesting in this basin, or close to it. I don't want to push them out of the area. Can hunting pressure push hens to abandon their nests?

 

[EKYHunter]

Quick update: I had time this morning to go out and glass for bears and check on my flock of hens. A little while after first light I found the flock off the roost, heading towards their usually feeding area. There was a strutter with them. I only watched them for a few mins before I started the half mile hike to their end of the basin. The last I had seen them, after going about a 1/4 mile, they were feeding just on the other side of a knob. I was going to lose sight of them at this point until I reached the knob. But by then, i may be just on top of them. Once i was near the knob, i slowly moved in, scanning the area around me as I climbed. I spotted a hen about 50 yards ahead of me, feeding in and out of some brush. I then army crawled another 20 yards to where I could barely make out their heads and outlines while laying down. The tom made an appearance a few mins later and I took a shot. Then another and another, since it seemed he might be only wounded and making a break for it. Anyway, I was able to fill my tag and pack a bird off the mountain. It was a younger tom, maybe a jake, but i'm not sure how to tell the difference other than the jake being smaller with a not as full fan and a shorter beard. I counted the same number of hens, and this was the only male in the group. Maybe the jakes are more prone to wander, looking for lonely hens without a tom. I'm assuming the jakes get beat up and pushed out of flocks or other areas with a dominant tom. But i was glad to fill my tag. I'll still be hunting the area for bears, and i'm interested to see if another jake/tom makes it way to the hens. One worry i have is disturbing the hens. The must be nesting in this basin, or close to it. I don't want to push them out of the area. Can hunting pressure push hens to abandon their nests?

Congrats on your first turkey. Turkey hunting is an addictive pursuit and I’m guessing you’ll want to do it again. A Jake will generally have three longer feathers in the middle of his fan, have a beard no longer than 6” buy usually 3-4”, and small bumps for spurs. Any turkey taken legally is a trophy in my opinion. I love turkeys and turkey hunting.

 

[tdoubled]

Congrats on your first turkey. Turkey hunting is an addictive pursuit and I’m guessing you’ll want to do it again. A Jake will generally have three longer feathers in the middle of his fan, have a beard no longer than 6” buy usually 3-4”, and small bumps for spurs. Any turkey taken legally is a trophy in my opinion. I love turkeys and turkey hunting.

Yeah, this guy had a 4 inch beard and bumps for spurs. And yes, I now plan on making spring turkey an annual hunt now. It was a fun experience, for sure. I'll have to practice calling, but the spot and stalk scenario was very rewarding. I'm tempted to go buy another tag... I've got till May 25th, and I'll be checking on this little flock the next few weeks.

 

[EKYHunter]

Yeah, this guy had a 4 inch beard and bumps for spurs. And yes, I now plan on making spring turkey an annual hunt now. It was a fun experience, for sure. I'll have to practice calling, but the spot and stalk scenario was very rewarding. I'm tempted to go buy another tag... I've got till May 25th, and I'll be checking on this little flock the next few weeks.

Good luck and post up a pic when you kill another bird.