To Flute or not to Flute?

[Redmt]

For weight saving ya can't beat a hacksaw. 16 or 18 inch barrel does well, but the projectiles slows down somewhat.

Yeh it probably does something ugly for accuracy too.

 

[kiwi hunter]

Yeh it probably does something ugly for accuracy too.

Nz is way out in front on chopping barrels, it actually improves accuracy, less harmonics less whip, try it you'll love it.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Remington Sendero has been fluted barrel for 25+ years and are known for great accuracy out of the box. I have Gen 1 300 Mag 26" straight fluted SS barrel with 1600 rds and still shoots sub MOA. Treat barrels right and they can last lot longer than most realize.

 

[Ballistic]

I was scanning the Internet where everything is true and verified. I was reading up on fluting as a way to lighten up a heavy barrel. As I get older, lighter is better. A bunch of the rifle manufacturers sell off the shelf rifles with fluted barrels. Savage is one of them. My deceased squirrel killer buddy had a 17hmr heavy stainless barrel that was helical fluted out of the box. It was a bunch lighter than mine, so mine is out being helical fluted now. The quandary comes in as I'm reading the Shillen website where they plainly say that fluting cancels their barrel warranty. Who's got some interesting thoughts on this?

Do you want interesting thoughts or wisdom? Shilen barrels are button rifled so fluting, contouring, threading, any exterior cutting needs to be done BEFORE it is rifled. This is why you don't get technical information form web forums and social media.

 

[Redmt]

Do you want interesting thoughts or wisdom? Shilen barrels are button rifled so fluting, contouring, threading, any exterior cutting needs to be done BEFORE it is rifled. This is why you don't get technical information form web forums and social media.

I'm guessing you didn't read into the sarcasm about the Internet. Technical information needs to come from the manufacturer and HT is as close as I come to social media. That was interesting though about all machine work needs to be completed prior to rifling. Another tidbit of information that I will store away.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Do you want interesting thoughts or wisdom? Shilen barrels are button rifled so fluting, contouring, threading, any exterior cutting needs to be done BEFORE it is rifled. This is why you don't get technical information from web forums and social media.

My understanding is that most button rifled barrels are rifled, stress relieved, and then contoured. Is that not the case? They are definitely chambered and muzzle threaded after the stress relief.

 

[BAKPAKR]

My understanding is that most button rifled barrels are rifled, stress relieved, and then contoured. Is that not the case? They are definitely chambered and muzzle threaded after the stress relief.

From the Hart barrel site:

 

[mtmuley]

I would say fluting is a waste of money but Ballistic would scold me. mtmuley

 

[Potsie]

I would say fluting is a waste of money but Ballistic would scold me. mtmuley

Some of it does look cool though. But functionally, waste of money.

 

[mtmuley]

Some of it does look cool though. But functionally, waste of money.

Harleys stainless fluted Remington is gorgeous. One of the best looking production rifles out there. mtmuley

 

[Ballistic]

Remington Sendero has been fluted barrel for 25+ years and are known for great accuracy out of the box. I have Gen 1 300 Mag 26" straight fluted SS barrel with 1600 rds and still shoots sub MOA. Treat barrels right and they can last lot longer than most realize.

T

My understanding is that most button rifled barrels are rifled, stress relieved, and then contoured. Is that not the case? They are definitely chambered and muzzle threaded after the stress relief.

Chambering doesn't matter because the cutting is on the inside of the barrel. Threading and fluting are a problem because it will cause loose areas in the bore. Threading in particular after is the cause of a lot more accuracy issues than fluting ever did because the bore will open at the end of the bullet path. Some advanced gunsmiths are cutting deep recessed crowns effectively reducing barrel length if threading is dome. This is immaterial with a cut rifle barrel because there is no stress induced in fluting. In fact, the steel is stress relieved before fluting.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

T

Chambering doesn't matter because the cutting is on the inside of the barrel. Threading and fluting are a problem because it will cause loose areas in the bore. Threading in particular after is the cause of a lot more accuracy issues than fluting ever did because the bore will open at the end of the bullet path. Some advanced gunsmiths are cutting deep recessed crowns effectively reducing barrel length if threading is dome. This is immaterial with a cut rifle barrel because there is no stress induced in fluting. In fact, the steel is stress relieved before fluting.

So if a cut rifle barrel is stress relieved before rifling is cut because cutting the rifling doesn’t induce stress and a button rifled barrel is stress relieved after rifling, shouldn’t they both be free of stresses when it comes time to contour, chamber, thread, and flute? Are the stresses not fully relieved from the button rifling process or what’s the deal?

I’ve read the accurate shooter articles about belling at the muzzle when there are muzzle threads. Maybe my expectations aren’t high enough but I’ve had enough muzzle threaded barrels that shoot as good as I can.

 

[Ballistic]

I would say fluting is a waste of money but Ballistic would scold me. m

So if a cut rifle barrel is stress relieved before rifling is cut because cutting the rifling doesn’t induce stress and a button rifled barrel is stress relieved after rifling, shouldn’t they both be free of stresses when it comes time to contour, chamber, thread, and flute? Are the stresses not fully relieved from the button rifling process or what’s the deal?

I’ve read the accurate shooter articles about belling at the muzzle when there are muzzle threads. Maybe my expectations aren’t high enough but I’ve had enough muzzle threaded barrels that shoot as good as I can.

It's a great question really, but one better suited for Gordy Gritters.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

T

Chambering doesn't matter because the cutting is on the inside of the barrel. Threading and fluting are a problem because it will cause loose areas in the bore. Threading in particular after is the cause of a lot more accuracy issues than fluting ever did because the bore will open at the end of the bullet path. Some advanced gunsmiths are cutting deep recessed crowns effectively reducing barrel length if threading is dome. This is immaterial with a cut rifle barrel because there is no stress induced in fluting. In fact, the steel is stress relieved before fluting.

Never stated 300WM chambering made a difference. It was just an added comment that the "fluted" barrel has held up fine. The question by the OP was simple; does fluting provide any benefit. My posting was very simple, Remington has had a long successful history with the Sendero line with fluted barrels. The type of barrel is irrelevant, it was not the OP's question.

 

[BAKPAKR]

The question by the OP was simple; does fluting provide any benefit…The type of barrel is irrelevant, it was not the OP's question.

The shop fluting my 17hmr has a very high end CNC, has been doing it for a very long time and has an excellent reputation. I think my question is why would Shillen be so opposed to fluting?

Actually, OP initially clarified his question as, “I think my question is why would Shilen be so opposed to fluting?”

I have read, in more than one place, warnings against fluting button-rifled barrels after they leave the barrelmaker because of how stresses are handled differently than with the cut rifling process. Those warnings seem to have some credibility as Shilen apparently doesn’t want their barrels fluted, and Hart recommends that fluting be done by them to ensure that the final product winds up within specs. So, I think the “type of barrel” is relevant.

If I were buying a new barrel with the plan to have it fluted, I would order it fluted by the barrelmaker.

BTW - I chose lighter contours over fluting on the two barrels I have purchased. But, I haven’t been bitten by the suppressor bug yet.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Actually, OP initially clarified his question as, “I think my question is why would Shilen be so opposed to fluting?”

If I were buying a new barrel with the plan to have it fluted, I would order it fluted by the barrelmaker.

BTW - I chose lighter contours over fluting on the two barrels I have purchased. But, I haven’t been bitten by the suppressor bug yet.

I prefer same and have settled in Light Palma contour as my compromise for barrel weight versus heavier contour fluted.

Totally agree any barrel modification must be done by the barrel manufacturer. They own the barrel performance not the next guy down the line.

 

[Redmt]

I would have definitely chosen a lighter barrel but I'm pretty sure somewhere I had mentioned it was for a Ruger #1 originally with a heavy stainless barrel and laminate stock in 22-250. I originally wanted a stainless laminate in 6.5 Creedmoor. The Creedmoor haters need not reply. Ruger never made a stainless 6.5 so I researched having a barrel bored to 6.5 CM. In steps Wayne York of Oregunsmithing who f'ed the barrel beyond belief. He had it fluted by boltfluting.com who did a beautiful job making it much lighter.

Now @p_ham comes to my rescue . Somewhere I came to think that he had mentioned Shillen, but I'm probably mistaken. Anyway I was cruising the Shillen website where they said do not flute their barrels as it will void the warranty. This is where this thread started.
I had seen where Shillen had their profiles listed and talked to Paul about a lighter barrel that wouldn't look funky with the laminate forearm. Paul said that he was going to use an X-Caliber barrel that was a bit smaller profile and came factory fluted. So,,,,, besides being screwed out of $690.00 by Wayne York, it's going to come out great in the end by Paul having a lighter barrel made by X-CALIBER and installed by him.

 

[Redmt]

Totally agree any barrel modification must be done by the barrel manufacturer. They own the barrel performance not the next guy down the line.

X2

 

[N2TRKYS]

Personally, I don’t like the looks of a fluted barrel, so I would never have it done. My lightweight rifles are my Remington Model Sevens. I’m really fighting the urge to buy the Howa Carbon Stalker in 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel. That rifle is supposed to be sub 5 lbs bare rifle.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

The funny part of fluting for weight etc is my last 30-06 build was old school. Simple Sendero contour, no fluting, 26". Not really a carry rifle for most but rifle weight is subjective and doesn't bother me. Lucky or cursed not sure but being Sasquatch size, rifle weight is . It's my Indiana Ag field rifle when I visit Indiana. At being 3/4 Century old, my rifle weight is still meh. Be easier to skinny down my lunch.

Well that ain't gonna happen, can't waste away out there.