This Looks Like a Win

[BigHornRam]

Conversations with you on this are exhausting. All I will say is solar and wind pay rental rates on the land used rather than extraction fees on the stuff taken out of the ground. The net effect is the same.

What is the lease rate for this proposed windfarm? Guarantee that the royalties are considerably more than the windfarms are charged for their land lease.

 

[SAJ-99]

O&G, mining, etc. also pay land rental rates on land used, on top of royalties. Perhaps you were referring to the capacity fee W and S pay for electricity generated.

Any idea how they compare?

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Any idea how they compare?

Thats a tricky one.

Give me a minute and Ill come up with some easily refuted BS.

 

[SAJ-99]

Guarantee that the royalties are considerably more than the windfarms are charged for their land lease.

I can't find that info and it varies from project to project even if they are all the same use (renewable or oil). I tend to think the market makes them about equal. Keep in mind that if a gas well takes the gas out, it still has to be turned into electricity. The royalty rates can't be so high to make the whole thing unprofitable. But I love your confidence. Hold on to your view regardless of data that may refute it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Conversations with you on this are exhausting. All I will say is solar and wind pay rental rates on the land used rather than extraction fees on the stuff taken out of the ground. The net effect is the same.

Matter of fact, Biden Administration raised O&G lease, and royalty rates in the IRA.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-finalizes-big-reforms-federal-oil-gas-drilling-2024-04-12/

 

[Oak]

Biden admin shoved it through last minute.

Looks like public scoping began in 2021. Looks like there were ongoing updates provided through 2022 and 2023. Looks like the DEIS was released in January 2023 and the FEIS in June 2024. The ROD was signed in December 2024. How long do you think NEPA should take, because 4 years seems like a long time. You probably recall President Trump's NEPA Modernization rule in 2020 that said the EIS process should typically not last more that 2 years, and the final EIS should not be more than 150 pages long. Talk about shoving it through.

Lava Ridge Wind Project

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Any idea how they compare?

Capacity fees for W&S on BLM are based on nameplate capacity of facility. In 2021 or 2022 Sec Halaand announced the BLM was reducing Capacity fees for W&S on BLM from max of $3802/MW to $2000/MW. This was to spur development of W&S on Fed land. At the time BLM said they were on track to have 25,000 MW of W&S on Fed land by 2025. Say that came true and total Capacity fee would be $50,000,000 annually. Not sure how many acres that would require.

Now for a coal fired power plant.

One plant in SW Wyo that at one time had 4 coal fired units had a nameplate capacity of 2123MW. In 2019 it burned roughly 6M tons of coal. Assuming a FOB sale price at the time of $38/ton (highly educated guess) and assuming all coal came from BLM land (it did not) Those 6 million tons would have generated $28,500,000 in royalties to the DOI. Had that same Power plant been a W or S installation it would have generated $4.25M in capacity fees annually.

For land rental rates, I believe those were also reduced in 2021/22 for W&S but even if they were not its not even a rounding error compared to royalties and capacity fees.

 

[BigHornRam]

Looks like public scoping began in 2021. Looks like there were ongoing updates provided through 2022 and 2023. Looks like the DEIS was released in January 2023 and the FEIS in June 2024. The ROD was signed in December 2024. How long do you think NEPA should take, because 4 years seems like a long time. You probably recall President Trump's NEPA Modernization rule in 2020 that said the EIS process should typically not last more that 2 years, and the final EIS should not be more than 150 pages long. Talk about shoving it through.

Lava Ridge Wind Project

The previous administration could be efficient when the wanted to be.

Interior Department Finalizes Framework for Future of Solar Development on Public Lands | U.S. Department of the Interior

The Department of the Interior today announced an updated Western Solar Plan to help guide efficient and environmentally responsible solar energy permitting on public lands across the West.

www.doi.gov

"This action builds on dozens of executive actions that the Biden-Harris administration has taken to accelerate and improve federal permitting so that we can deliver more projects more quickly. The median time to complete Administration the most complicated reviews is more than six months faster than the prior Administration. In addition, the Biden-Harris administration has permitted twice as many renewable energy projects on public lands compared to the prior Administration."

 

[CRJR45]

Can u help.me I'm new here

Run away !

 

[Oak]

Biden admin shoved it through last minute.

The previous administration could be efficient when the wanted to be.

Now I'm really confused. Is efficiency good or bad?

 

[CRJR45]

Now I'm really confused. Is efficiency good or bad?

Yes

 

[BigHornRam]

Now I'm really confused. Is efficiency good or bad?

If you want Wind and solar farms on your blm, yes it is good.

 

[BigHornRam]

Now I'm really confused. Is efficiency good or bad?

Are you sad that this lame duck approval was halted?

 

[SAJ-99]

Capacity fees for W&S on BLM are based on nameplate capacity of facility. In 2021 or 2022 Sec Halaand announced the BLM was reducing Capacity fees for W&S on BLM from max of $3802/MW to $2000/MW. This was to spur development of W&S on Fed land. At the time BLM said they were on track to have 25,000 MW of W&S on Fed land by 2025. Say that came true and total Capacity fee would be $50,000,000 annually. Not sure how many acres that would require.

Now for a coal fired power plant.

One plant in SW Wyo that at one time had 4 coal fired units had a nameplate capacity of 2123MW. In 2019 it burned roughly 6M tons of coal. Assuming a FOB sale price at the time of $38/ton (highly educated guess) and assuming all coal came from BLM land (it did not) Those 6 million tons would have generated $28,500,000 in royalties to the DOI. Had that same Power plant been a W or S installation it would have generated $4.25M in capacity fees annually.

For land rental rates, I believe those were also reduced in 2021/22 for W&S but even if they were not its not even a rounding error compared to royalties and capacity fees.

Still hard to compare on apples-to-apples. I would love to see the annual payments for something like Gemini Solar Project (approved in Trump I). I get that an administration can tilt things to those areas they favor but have to think that the charge can't be so ridiculous to make it worthwhile to keep the project running and citizens happy. In the near-term, these wins are going to be rare. Trump seems to love these making these AI data center announcements, and they can be built a lot faster than any gas-fired plant or wind project and use as much energy as a small city.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Still hard to compare on apples-to-apples. I would love to see the annual payments for something like Gemini Solar Project (approved in Trump I). I get that an administration can tilt things to those areas they favor but have to think that the charge can't be so ridiculous to make it worthwhile to keep the project running and citizens happy. In the near-term, these wins are going to be rare. Trump seems to love these making these AI data center announcements, and they can be built a lot faster than any gas-fired plant or wind project and use as much energy as a small city.

Gemini is a Concentrated Solar Project with Battery Storage. Prior to Sec Halands fee reduction its annual capacity fee was $3,259/MW ($2.25M). After the reduction all forms of W&S were reduced to $2,000/MW($1.4M). Passes the smell test that it would be cheaper than FF electrons, otherwise why would anyone do it.

 

[Oak]

Are you sad that this lame duck approval was halted?

I know nothing about the project. I don't even know what state it is in. I've not read most of the posts in this thread. My BS detector went off when I saw "shoved through at the last minute." In fact, I read so little in this thread that I did not know it was halted. Don't care. Are you sad when you are called out for making ridiculous statements?