Ollin Magnetic Digiscoping System

The Wise Use Movement (WUM)

Marland, In your first 8/30 link Tony Dean really hits the nail on the head!

"One of the phoniest groups ever to travel our trails is one few hunters and anglers have heard of. They call themselves the Wise Use Movement, and, yes, that is an oxymoron. I'm saddened that some within our ranks have bought their story.

They pose as just folks, grass- roots groups, claiming to be our friends. They aren't. No matter what they call themselves, they're financially backed by extractive industries looking to exploit things from the outdoors that the rest of us cherish....., especially in the West, their goal is simple. They want to protect industrial and agricultural access to public lands and water at bargain-basement rates. They see nothing wrong with clear-cutting steep hillsides along trout streams or mining in critical areas. And, as I said, they've captured some hunters who, I fear, have lost touch with the ethics of our sport.

Some have been bought in because they hear the Wise Use scare tactics about powerful environmental interests that want the public lands locked up. We should realize that it's the Wise Use types who want to lock things up...."

I'm sorry I didn't start posting this kinda info about the WUM a long time ago. It seems pretty obvious to me that some Hunt Talkers have been fooled by the WUM crowd! :eek: Here's some more info about the Blue Ribbon Coalition!:

"The most transparent part about the anti-environment movement is that it's composed of and funded by the National Cattlemen's Association, American Farm Bureau, People for the West (formed to fight mining reforms and funded by Homestake Mining Company, Energy Fuels Corporation and Chevron Petroleum), the BlueRibbon Coalition -- a coalition supporting more access to off-road vehicle use (funded by Honda and Kawasaki) -- and other industry-funded organizations."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/1998/apr/23/507124724.html

Here's more:"Harris also suggested that while PFUSA will now become history, those who rallied to their cause can join groups that represent "recreationists." That presumably means another Wise Use group, the Blue Ribbon Coalition, an organization opposed to any restrictions on OHV's on public lands. "

http://www.tonydean.com/issues.html?sectionid=147

"Friends, the Wise Use Movement is a lot more dangerous to the future of hunting than the gun issue, though I take neither lightly. It's not a "just plain folks" group. They're comprised of extractive users of public lands and often backed with industry money. And in spite of what they say, they don't give a damn about hunters and anglers. They'll use them, of course, but when all is said and done, they'll drop the fishing and hunting crowd like a hot potato.

By then, we'll have a closet full of shotguns and rifles and little to hunt on public land."

http://www.tonydean.com/issues.html?sectionid=140
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 09-01-2002 10:26: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Just as environmentalists attack the extractionindustries, the industries are attacking the reosurces through the WUM agenda. Too bad a lot of people can't see through this stuff.

BUZZ were are you? :D :D :D
 
I guess I should have posted this info about the BlueRibbon boys a long time ago!:

"Carrying the ORV industry's gas --and venting it --is the BlueRibbon Coalition, one of the original signatories to the Wise Use Agenda, an official platform hatched by Seattle-area propagandist Ron Arnold and convicted tax-fraud felon Alan M. Gottlieb that advocates the sale and development of public land as well as the suspension of federal statutory protection for "non-adaptive species." The coalition is jointly funded by Yamaha, Honda, Polaris, Ski-doo, and Horizon, and lists among its members scores of motor-head clubs with names like the Missouri Mudders, and such firms and cartels as the Western States Petroleum Association, American Forest & Paper Association, Boise Cascade, Idaho Cattle Association, Committee for Public Access to Public Lands, Idaho Mining Association, and Northwest Mining Association. Cofounder and director Clark Collins defines Forest Service Chief Dombeck's temporary moratorium on new logging roads as a wilderness-expansion plot by the "GAGs" (green advocacy groups, which he has also referred to as "hate groups" and "nature Nazis"). And in late August he launched the Wilderness Act Reform Coalition, to gut the statute that the ORV-timber-mining axis most loves to hate.......But not all sportsmen are so easily seduced, and when you strip away the mirrors, gongs, water, and dry ice, Clark Collins becomes a little man in a Wizard of Oz suit......................................................................................The presence of ATVs on public hunting grounds will probably be one of the largest contributors to loss of hunting opportunity that we've yet experienced. It puts the animals at a disadvantage. It violates the security that wildlife once had in difficult terrain."

But the ATV riders don't care as long as they don't have to get off and walk!!!

http://pws.chartermi.net/~duluthikes/wu_tw_motors.htm

We had a short discussion about the BRC last Winter:

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=000597

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 09-02-2002 10:21: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Good article Ithaca, that about sums up ORV use and abuse.

Yet, theres still lots of people who think there is no problem with ORV use.....
 
I really love the refrence in your link of voting for GORE!!!!!The true outdoorsman. LOL
I also love the guy that's complaning about the noise from the group of ATV riders ,while he is using a boat motor LOL
But thats right it's all about HIM.
Im sure as most of the complants go it wasnt as bad as he would like us all to think.
If it was he should of turned them all in ,the abuse woold of been easy to document if these riders had been ripping around on the shore like that,dont ya think?Or was he so into his own thing that he didnt want to use up more GAS to motor over and stop them?
Im sure with what I payed for my Yamaha Kodiak and Steve for his Big Bear combined with all the other off-road stuff Yamaha alone brings in ,the incentive to fight against the radical green freaks should be pretty good.
I see one of our ATV trail's here in Idaho got the close date pushed forward 1 Month.
It states that the Lowman Ranger District and the Idaho Fish & Game agreed to keep it open another month,to give the ATV community the chance to ride that trail in september.
It will be closed in October when the general rifle season opens.
It looks like a win-win to me ,and im happy to see other's with an open mind and are adopting the Multipal use on public land's.
I only wish I had time to ride that trail during the fall. But I will be out hunting.
I will be supporting the ATV,and other groups that decide to get out and use those same areas I will be hunting,I love to see familys out there taking advantage of all the outdoor thing's we have ,If I have to share with other users that fine with me.
Lucky for now its still public land and we have good groups working to keep it that way.
Its the radical's on both side's that need to be stopped.
Not the law abiding people .

Buzz ,I see in another post you offered to let me Kiss your ass LOL Its tempting
:eek: :eek: your pretty cute when your mad.

;)
 
Either way, the extremists suck.
Find me ONE group that is supporting and advocating common sense, responsible scientific land management, gun and hunting rights, private property rights, access to public lands(motorized and nonmotorized)and thats where my money and time will support.
 
LOST, I'll send you my address, and you can pay the membership fee (yet to be determined, ah heck just send me a blank check), and I'll send you your membership card (please note that you'll be considered a "founding member" as your number will be #2).

BUZZ, good to hear from you. Want to be #3? We do support ATV riding though.

Just a note, archery hunting last weekend, I started counting the number of registered and unregistered ATV's in the wood, and came to the conclusion that there needs to be more people buying their stickers. 23% had their stickers 77% didn't, of course most of these were sitting on trailers or in trucks (waiting to be used I guess :D :D :D ). Just so Ithaca and BUZZ know, I left mine at home were it usually sets. I don't even own a truck to haul it around right now.
 
Thanks Ten, the check's in the mail to ya, maybe we ought to just start our own group, there's too many radicals out there on both sides and I want more of a moderate tone to be involved with. I suppose if we're too modrate nobody will think its worthwhile and not send their checks, but ohwell we'll know its the right way.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Find me ONE group that is supporting and advocating common sense, responsible scientific land management, gun and hunting rights, private property rights, access to public lands(motorized and nonmotorized)and thats where my money and time will support. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the problem. Most people hold these views, but the public (in general) is apathetic.

IMO, The Nature Conservancy is about as close to some of these ideals as any. I'm not sure of their position on motorized traffic, but I do know they allow hunting on some of thier properties.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 09-05-2002 12:49: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
 
Lost, great idea!! Start your own group and get MD4M to be your PR Director! How about giving us your moderate, middle of the road positions on wolves, ATVs, breaching dams, grizzlys, CARA, the Forest Service budget, public land grazing, forest fire management, and global warming!!! :D I bet you can't come up with a sensible position on even three of those issues!

The problem with you two WUM dupes is that you've never actually tried to accomplish anything on any of those issues. Having your own group will be a good experience for you. I predict you'll fail miserably, but I hope you'll prove me wrong. Good luck!
 
IT== MD4M is nearly as radical this way as you are that way. Moderate, middle of the road positions on wolves, ATVs, breaching dams, grizzlys, CARA, the Forest Service budget, public land grazing, forest fire management, and global warming!!!

Moderate is personal resonsibility.
Middle of the road is the money repealer. Nobody wants everything to be fine, they want a fight.
Wolves and grizzlies are easy, if they are on fed/state land, they're safe from all, even if they are chewing on your leg. They are on their turf, you lose. If they are on your private land, killing your pets, you should the right to snuff they out or not, your choice..
USFS budget should be a general fund expenditure, not tied to anything...., what do you want the USFS to do? I want it to change its focus to provide for sustainable ecosystem health, so spend the money that is needed for that. If we get a return of revenue from timber sales, great, if not ohwell. We'll get a healthy forest. Pay what it takes. Same with fire management.... It should already be digitally mapped by now what is where.I have almost no sympathy for people that build in the forest and then a fire comes thru. About as much for hurricane people. No control burns....what an oxymoron. Use fire to clean up after using mechanical methods to reduce the feulbuildup.
Grazing should be the gov't hires the rancher to bring his critters to where they need to be. Govt brings them on and has them moved or removed.
So for timber, grazing, etc, hire/contract with someone to do the harvesting of what needs to be harvested and pay them to do it. Win-win, we get a healthier ecosystem and revenue from the resources and they get revenue from the contracts.
 
I agree Lost. Ecosystem health should be the focus of ALL the resource agencies, first and foremost. You're plans sound reasonable to me and a compromise. Do you want to run for government???;)
 
Where to start :confused:

Ithaca;
Wolves should have been handled the same way the grizzlies are now. We had wolves before the "reintroduction" (just like we have some grizzlies). Under a protected status they were recovering fine (slowly, but fine) without the reintroduction (now they have the status of experiemental, different ball game there I'm told). However, since we were forced to endure the reintroduction, let's pick up delisting and managing them at or near the levels calculated as sustatinable (set for delisting). I agree with LOST, ranchers and farmers (and everybody else) shouldn't have to endure wolf problems on private lands, and the wolves are intelligent animals from what I'm told (more so then some on this site, self included), they'll learn were their welcome, and were their not that way (kinda like the wolves we already had). I also think that hikers, hunters, and fishermen snouldn't have to worry about shooting the wolf off their leg when their on federal and state lands, but they better be willing to show that there was a threat to them when they shot the wolf, other then the wolf was standing 100 feet away when they shot it (or following the same trail).

ATV's, lets say I think we've had this discussion before. I think we should have some areas and road systems open for ATV operation, and we should first find a way to enforce our current ATV closure restrictioned areas (ATV proof them) before we start creating more problem with blanket closures that have no means of being enforced.

CARA, I support it. I think that society as a whole should help pay the bills for the wildlife and ecosystems that they enjoy.

I'll stand with LOST on his views of forest service budgets, firemanagement, and grazing (a bit rough, but we're moderates, and we haven't had a meeting yet).

Dam breaching, let me think on that one a bit. Hate to post the same thought twice, and I'll be post on that thread shortly.
 
Ten,
Must be too much common sense reasonable stuff for IT to handle.
Seems our ideals pretty well coincide.
 
Lost, Sorry, I've been in a state of shock the last few days at how reasonable your positions are, Ten's too! :D Besides, I've been busy with some other stuff. Anyway, I like your positions. Good luck with your new organization and I hope you can get some of your ideas implemented!
 
Ten's group will never work until the radicals are disposed of properly.
We have some logging orgs here that wanted to clear out some of the undergrowth but the obstructionists beleive "all loggers want more roads and OMG are going to cut trees, and don't care if its live or dead."
Then the UN NAFTA corps don't care as long as they can operate.
So, its time to dipose of the radicals.
 
The problem with being in the middle of the road on these issues is that moderates don't scream and shout enough, and when they do they're not moderate anymore.

I'd love to start a hunter organization based on a moderate line, but I don't think many would want to join. Oh ya, I doo belong to such an organization now, The Shoshone County Sportsmens Association, you don't here much from or about them (400+ members) because they're mostly moderates. Recently they paid to construct new raceways at the Hail Fish Hatchery in Mullan. Fish and Game supplied the manpower and equipment, and the association supplied the cement ($4000.00 worth). But you don't here them in the press telling everyone how great they are.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 09-10-2002 09:39: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>
 
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