The Struggles of the Newbie... Advice Please

[Wisco]

Hey guys, as a newbie, I'm trying to figure out as much for my first elk hunt this fall as I can. So I'm sure you'll see me asking for advice a few times over the next couple months. I think I've got most of the basic application strategy and what not figured out so far. So now I'm starting to think about gear... In order to know what gear I want, I need to know what it's going to be like out there.

Background: Throwing a group application in for NM archery (second season) and if we come up unsuccessful, we'll go CO OTC archery around the same time (Sept 15-24th ish). I'm a WI whitetail hunter used to sitting through hours of wind, snow, and cold so most of my good apparel is on the heavier side.

1) What will the weather be like during this season in the mountains (besides the obvious answer of unpredictable)? Should I look to upgrade my gear for lightweight wind/rain gear (as in, will that be what I will likely use the majority of the time)? Should I expect it to be cold enough I'll heavily rely on my cold gear and not worry about the quality of my wind/rain gear as I'll be using it less. Obviously I'll bring it all, but what would I expect most of my use to come from? And what do you guys like to use?

2) I'm used to being meticulous about sound coming in and out of the woods, but is that as necessary in the elk woods? I can't imagine being able to stumble through the mountains in the dark quietly. So how do you guys do it?

Sorry, these questions come off kinda random, but they keep me awake at night... lol

Thanks!

 

[406LIFE]

I'll attempt to answer your questions in a general way:

1. You can do some internet searches for weather during the time frame. You could also call local guides and sporting good shops in the area to get a more dialed in answer. But, in essence, you answered your own question with take it all and deal with it when you get there.

2. Unless I am trying to get in on a heard that I know is in X exact spot, I'm not overally worried about sound walking in. I am trying to get ahead of animals and will go a roundabout way to wherever X is. Sound is not really a factor. If I know that animal is at X, I will have already been in the field, have a general to very good idea of where the trail is or when I need to go and be able to map that out before I go out the next morning. I've found that a herd of elk is not so quiet... I wouldn't get excited over this.

 

[Elkmagnet]

There a re a lot of historical whether resources at this link.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/co/snow/?cid=nrcs144p2_063301

 

[cedahm]

I'll attempt to answer your questions in a general way:

1. You can do some internet searches for weather during the time frame. You could also call local guides and sporting good shops in the area to get a more dialed in answer. But, in essence, you answered your own question with take it all and deal with it when you get there.

Beyond this, depending on what part of each state you're considering, weather mid-September can vary drastically. We were in SW NM last October and it was nearly 80 daytime and sub-30 nighttime. In CO, we've had 10 degrees and snow to 80's and high winds. Bring it all. Plan on layers.

2. Unless I am trying to get in on a heard that I know is in X exact spot, I'm not overally worried about sound walking in. I am trying to get ahead of animals and will go a roundabout way to wherever X is. Sound is not really a factor. If I know that animal is at X, I will have already been in the field, have a general to very good idea of where the trail is or when I need to go and be able to map that out before I go out the next morning. I've found that a herd of elk is not so quiet... I wouldn't get excited over this.

Good points. Elk are noisy as hell when moving about. I worry way less about sound and way more about Wind. You can fool an elks ears, but not his nose. Not that you should come busting in like a freight train or anything, but as long as your wind is good, typical sounds aren't going to blow them out of the country.

 

[elkduds]

Altitude. Search elk hunting forums and consider talking to your Dr. Altitude and lack of conditioning spoil more NR hunts than any other factor. I expect to use my rain gear more than cold weather gear in Sept. in CO, and NM is even warmer. I still take insulating layers though. We have late summer monsoon rains that continue past mid Sept about 40% of years. If it snows, it will be a short storm, over after a few hours or days, and the hunting will improve right after the snow. Elk are more spooked by smell than sound, in fact calling/raking are important tools in Sept.

 

[meriwetherlewis]

1) What will the weather be like during this season in the mountains (besides the obvious answer of unpredictable)? Should I look to upgrade my gear for lightweight wind/rain gear (as in, will that be what I will likely use the majority of the time)? Should I expect it to be cold enough I'll heavily rely on my cold gear and not worry about the quality of my wind/rain gear as I'll be using it less. Obviously I'll bring it all, but what would I expect most of my use to come from? And what do you guys like to use?

Generally temp would be 40-60. Leave your heavy winter stuff at home and bring layers. For me, 1 long john bottom in the morning, then just pants. I wear more upper layers. Be ready to take them on and off. When your'e hiking you will need few (prob 1), when you stop throw another one on to keep your heat. If your'e glassing, you will be up high where it's windy; you will want multiple. A good rain coat usually is a good outer layer (Not PVC), it blocks more wind than fabric. Grab a $3 seat cushion from Walmart. Best and lightest chair you can bring on the mtn. Keeps your ass dry and warm.

2) I'm used to being meticulous about sound coming in and out of the woods, but is that as necessary in the elk woods? I can't imagine being able to stumble through the mountains in the dark quietly. So how do you guys do it? Thanks!

Don't sound a heard of elephants walking through the woods and you're good. Your instincts will tell you when it's time to be sneaky or time to cover ground. Keep your nose to the wind and your head on a swivel.

 

[NoWiser]

When I hunted NM 2nd archery we had mornings below freezing and afternoons in the mid 80s. We also had rain. Lots and lots of rain.

Don't worry too much about sound, but don't ever stop paying attention to the wind or it will come back to bite you. Have a basic understanding of thermals before you get there.

 

[esracerx]

A lot depends on unit. What units were you looking at for New Mexico? You say second archery, so are you looking at 3 different units or just 1? Full DIY or semi-guided? Outiftters and guides could help you out with these questions.

An average day you could see the temp in the low 40s in the morning, but by 10 it could be 70. A merino wool base layer is in my opinion a must. LAYERS

Regarding sound, these animals are big. They make noise. Almost want to make noise. No cow is walking around calling silently. You want to be quiet, but scent is the biggest. Throw any UA crap in the garbage. We've had it rain maybe twice in the last 3 years

 

[Muskeez]

Sounds like you will be hunting from the trailhead? If you are bringing it all, then that will be fine. I find a couple key pieces in CO have been a good quality lightweight rain suit, and lightweight gloves and multiple pairs of socks, I always have a dry pair of socks in my pack to change into mid-day. I also pack a puffy down or Primaloft jacket for cold mornings but mostly to sleep in, along with a really comfortable fleece stocking hat , actually I bring two, one to hunt in and one to sleep in just in case my other one gets wet during the daytime rain shower. Quality boots that your feet LOVE actually trump most equipment. Also as said above, talk to your doctor about conditioning and altitude sickness pills if you don't know what your body can handle for altitude. I'm personally OK up to 9000' but past that I can get sick as heck, the pills help a ton if used exactly as directed. Enjoy , the planning is half the fun!

 

[Wisco]

Thanks guys, as always, your advice helps a ton. I've been looking for a good merino base as well as a water-proof (resistant) mid-layer. I've been on camofire a ton just waiting for the right deal to fall in my lap. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

 

[Muskeez]

If you haven't tried merino base layers before, do it well before your trip. They aren't for everyone. I can do Merino socks, but tops and bottoms still make me itch, I have had to go to the Polyester or Under armor type although I buy other brands , not UA.

 

[esracerx]

Check out King's camo. somebody here pointed me in there direction and it was worth it. Good material over pattern all day

 

[Archie]

Hey Wisco. Where are you putting in for your tag here in New Mexico? That will have much to do with your prep. We are generally cooler in the north, warmer in the south, and cooler at the higher elevations no matter where you are.

I can tell you September is generally moderate-to-warm in the lower elevations, which just about everywhere in this state can be considered around 3,000 feet. "Moderate" here in late summer/early fall is in the 80s. At the higher elevations where it sounds like you're headed (over 5-6,000 ft), you will have cooler evenings and mornings (maybe low 40s), but comfortably temperate afternoons (70s average depending on elevation). It just depends on where you are headed. For example, it can be 90 degrees in the city of Alamogordo at 4,000 feet, and 70 degrees in Cloudcroft, which is only 12 miles away but 4,000 feet higher. You will have more potential for precip at the higher altitudes, but our monsoon season is usually late June/July. You will not see snow on the ground that time of year unless you are pulling a bowstring on the peak of Mount Wheeler.

Layering is key, and merino is your friend. I have been on hunts in September in the lowlands where it is shirtsleeves and sweat all day, and others, say around 8,000 feet in the Lincoln National Forest, where it gets fallish nippy, especially in the shade, and a nice wind-break fleece outer layer, a fleece watch cap and even light gloves come in handy. No matter where you are there is very little moisture in the air to hold heat so as the day begins and winds down the temperature will do so also, relative to the mid-day temp. I've always used Weather Underground for my pre-hunt planning and it has served me pretty well.

The general rule in New Mexico altitude is: If you don't like the weather, just wait an hour. It will change.

For me, hunting with a good pack is a necessary thing here. In order to keep layers available or stored and, most importantly, to stay hydrated. Even in the cool and even stationary you will be losing water relatively quickly, most certainly compared to Wisconsin. Between that and the exertion at altitude it can be a challenge for someone who does not prepare for it. Sometimes the higher elevations are a challenge even for a native. I've been hunting here for many years, and I pack a 3-liter hydration bladder for a day hunt and always bring a little ibuprofen in case I get one of those nagging altitude headaches which can come for anyone exerting themselves at altitude.

With regards to noise discipline, the answer is yes. Good woodscraft never hurts. You will be coming in towards the end of the rut, but my experience has been that they are still likely to be wary. Better to be careful than sorry.

Cheers and good luck with your hunt!

 

[bobbydean]

I applied for elk in unit 34. Bull, cow. cow.

Just got a e-mail from NMGFD that they are adding 300 cow elk tags to the pool. I worry about too many hunters, but does increase my odds for a tag.

There was a depredation hunt in December in this unit. Must be a lot of complaining from locals. This unit is hunted hard from early archery to late cow rifle in December and January.

Good hunting.

 

[esracerx]

I had heard that they were changing the LO authorization system a little. Not sure if there's truth to that or not but that could play a small part if it is. As an archery only guy I had to look up the any legal season and compared to last years for 34. They aren't adding 300 tags...at least that's not what it appears. In each of the antlerless seasons including the youth hunt they upped their numbers. Youth hunt went from 100 to 120 tags. The last 3 antlerless seasons went from 250 to 300 tags.

I would suspect that the bull to cow ratio is a little out of whack.

 

[bobbydean]

What it is is what it is. I have already applied.

I want bull, would take a cow. My brother's hunting partner for years takes the meat. I think he is in mid 80's,

Love giving meat to those that use it!

 

[rideold]

From a lifetime of living in Colorado I'd counsel you to pack all varieties of clothing in the car and make a final decision on what layers you need when you pack your bag for the day (if you are base camping) or week (if you are spike camping). Like has been pointed out September in Colorado can (and will) give you any and all seasons. I've had great luck with soft shell clothing that has a DWR coating. Stands for 80% of the moisture I encounter. The other 10% is what the rain gear is good for but if it's that wet I'm probably not hunting during it anyway so it's gear to hole up in until the weather changes.

 

[Sarge]

Sounds like you will be hunting from the trailhead? If you are bringing it all, then that will be fine. I find a couple key pieces in CO have been a good quality lightweight rain suit, and lightweight gloves and multiple pairs of socks, I always have a dry pair of socks in my pack to change into mid-day. I also pack a puffy down or Primaloft jacket for cold mornings but mostly to sleep in, along with a really comfortable fleece stocking hat , actually I bring two, one to hunt in and one to sleep in just in case my other one gets wet during the daytime rain shower. Quality boots that your feet LOVE actually trump most equipment. Also as said above, talk to your doctor about conditioning and altitude sickness pills if you don't know what your body can handle for altitude. I'm personally OK up to 9000' but past that I can get sick as heck, the pills help a ton if used exactly as directed. Enjoy , the planning is half the fun!

This!

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

You more or less have to consider 90% of what you know from WI whitetail hunting to not apply for elk with the exception of watching the wind, scent control isn't possible. Turkeys would be the closest midwest equivalent to rutting elk in calling and strategy. Not the same as far as physical demands, but more so with the hot/cold nature of calling and responses.

Take a lot of gear to the trailhead and assume you will drop 50% of that gear after day 1. You can only be a minimalist through experience.

Clothing will mostly be lighter than deer hunting because you will be active. You will take layers on and off all day long. Good base layers and then a down jacket plus stocking cap while glassing are pretty key.

Mountain weather is something you just have to experience, but generally speaking it changes quickly with most precipitation being late afternoon. Certain sides of mountain ranges will always get weather or have weather blow over a lot. It is so location specific.

 

[silasd]

I agree with the other posts on altitude and conditioning. Two biggest factors. It also depends on where you're hunting. Unit 34 has very varied terrain. It can get quite cold at night, so layers, layers layers. Also - Unit 34 is one of the units where NMGF has found CWD so make sure to get your meat tested when you harvest. Chances are it'll be fine, but that's the funny thing about chance. I have never hunted it but I hear there are some real monsters down there. Have a great hunt!