The Question That None Of Greater Yellowstone's Conservation Groups Are Willing To Confront

[diamond hitch]

I find irony here as the Forest Service is and has abandoned the extensive trail system created on the western boundary of Montana and Idaho after the 1910 fire. Guess you have to have use/demand to justify the time and expenditure.

Those of us on the fringes of population centers are starting to see the influx of people stepping out of the more densely occupied areas. Thankfully the majority seem to want more motorized access so far.

 

[BuzzH]

I find irony here as the Forest Service is and has abandoned the extensive trail system created on the western boundary of Montana and Idaho after the 1910 fire. Guess you have to have use/demand to justify the time and expenditure.

Those of us on the fringes of population centers are starting to see the influx of people stepping out of the more densely occupied areas. Thankfully the majority seem to want more motorized access so far.

I agree. In particular when you look at historic maps of a lot of areas in MT, ID, WY, etc. there were much more extensive trail systems in many places in the past. Over time, many of those trails have been abandoned or not maintained for all kinds of reasons.

I think that carefully resurrecting some of the historic trails could help to spread some of the impacts of increased use/pressure. Smart planning is going to have to be part of the equation.

 

[MThuntr]

Definitely a tough issue. I went to a place last weekend. We were the only "locals" (not being a snob just pointing out that Arkansas, WA, OR, and TX were dominant license plates) and several groups had llamas which was quite a surprise. Then this week a few guys with cameras, llamas, and packrafts released a youtube video of a fishing trip to the very same area. I think access to social media has really increased activity in areas that were remote and only recently "discovered" because of a Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube video. Hell I've forced my hiking crew to stop tagging photos, dropping in the wrong landscapes, blocking obvious landmarks, and we've even started tagging the wrong location. Yes that is selfish and I don't care.

I'm curious if the trend of over loving our public lands will falter once the risks of COVID go away in say 3-5 years. People may start going back to the bigger National Parks, Disney World and even travel abroad.

I agree that we've abandoned a ton of historic trails...a lot of that I think revolves around budget. We've gone to a system where we spend millions on fire but zero on trails. The local forest doesn't have a Rec Specialist and without that person there is no trails crew without trails crew there is little to no work done (a few volunteer crews and MCC do some).

 

[Gerald Martin]

Definitely a tough issue. I went to a place last weekend. We were the only "locals" (not being a snob just pointing out that Arkansas, WA, OR, and TX were dominant license plates) and several groups had llamas which was quite a surprise. Then this week a few guys with cameras, llamas, and packrafts released a youtube video of a fishing trip to the very same area. I think access to social media has really increased activity in areas that were remote and only recently "discovered" because of a Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube video. Hell I've forced my hiking crew to stop tagging photos, dropping in the wrong landscapes, blocking obvious landmarks, and we've even started tagging the wrong location. Yes that is selfish and I don't care.

I'm curious if the trend of over loving our public lands will falter once the risks of COVID go away in say 3-5 years. People may start going back to the bigger National Parks, Disney World and even travel abroad.

I agree that we've abandoned a ton of historic trails...a lot of that I think revolves around budget. We've gone to a system where we spend millions on fire but zero on trails. The local forest doesn't have a Rec Specialist and without that person there is no trails crew without trails crew there is little to no work done (a few volunteer crews and MCC do some).

You mean you really weren’t in Arkansas on that last trip you posted on Instagram????? #disillusioned #herodisappointment #atleastyourraftisstillawesome

 

[Nameless Range]

The topic of abandoned forest service trails is an interesting one.

I definitely agree that with smart planning, it may help alleviate pressure on other trails by opening new ones. Though on the other hand I very much believe that ,”If you build it they will come“ is true. Particularly within proximity of any of the five big towns of western Montana. And yes, I am thinking of the mountain biking crowd as much as anything.

It’s possible the scene in the Helena area has jaded me.

 

[MTLabrador]

Hell I've forced my hiking crew to stop tagging photos, dropping in the wrong landscapes, blocking obvious landmarks, and we've even started tagging the wrong location. Yes that is selfish and I don't care.

I like the decoy tactics.

 

[MThuntr]

You mean you really weren’t in Arkansas on that last trip you posted on Instagram????? #disillusioned #herodisappointment #atleastyourraftisstillawesome

I'm not sure there is even a Little Rock River. I told them that we should tag the Arkansas River and that's what I got

 

[Gerald Martin]

I'm not sure there is even a Little Rock River. I told them that we should tag the Arkansas River and that's what I got

#soobscureyoudontevenknowwhatyouaretalkingabout #genius #nottrendingtrend

 

[longbow51]

Maybe time to re-read Edward Abbey's Desert Solitaire. He predicted all this, and also gave us solutions. Everyone needs to read this, and the book noted in my signature if you have not, and I'll bet a lot of younger folks have not. Classics! Wish I could read them again for the first time.

 

[RobG]

The topic of abandoned forest service trails is an interesting one.

I definitely agree that with smart planning, it may help alleviate pressure on other trails by opening new ones. Though on the other hand I very much believe that ,”If you build it they will come“ is true. Particularly within proximity of any of the five big towns of western Montana. And yes, I am thinking of the mountain biking crowd as much as anything.

It’s possible the scene in the Helena area has jaded me.

Fifty years from now I think we are going to regret any new trails and I wish people wouldn't insist on them in trades like the ones in the Crazies.

A dozen years ago I hiked one of the sisters near Bend, OR. I was stunned to see a near continuous line of people from the base to the summit. I'm afraid that is what we will be seeing soon.

 

[diamond hitch]

During the wilderness/roadless study years, our crews talked about buses showing up at the entrance. Then 4 abreast they would have their wilderness experience. In Alaska they only let a very small number in at a time to preserve the experience.

While I was on the RAC for the BLM one of our big topics was floaters and boat density.

I see things coming that I don't like to think about. I'm glad I am old - I fear the future. I'm not much of a "group" person. I like my woods time alone or with a friend- not with a neighborhood.

 

[mtmuley]

Fifty years from now I think we are going to regret any new trails and I wish people wouldn't insist on them in trades like the ones in the Crazies.

A dozen years ago I hiked one of the sisters near Bend, OR. I was stunned to see a near continuous line of people from the base to the summit. I'm afraid that is what we will be seeing soon.

An un-named peak in the Root has been getting a lot of attention this summer. Trailheads I used to see mostly abandoned are full. Hunting season ought be interesting. mtmuley

 

[rtraverdavis]

A dozen years ago I hiked one of the sisters near Bend, OR. I was stunned to see a near continuous line of people from the base to the summit. I'm afraid that is what we will be seeing soon.

Most of that area has gone to a permit system—just to be able to access certain parts of the Wilderness and National Forest—because of crowding issues. If you were to do that same hike today (if I’m correct in my assumption of which hike you did) you’d have to pull a limited-quota permit and would only be allowed to make your hike for the date you received the permits for. In the next one or two years, I’ll have the points to draw a pretty decent deer tag for that area, and in order to summer scout the part of the unit that I’m interested in hunting, I will have to draw an access permit. Central Oregon could be the bellwether for things to come when it comes to how localities address crowded (and abused) wild lands.

Forest Service finalizes wilderness permit system for Three Sisters, Jefferson, Washington

A major new permit system will forever changing hiking in the Sisters, Jefferson and Washington wilderness areas. Here's everything you need to know

www.google.com

Too many damn people. It’s stuff like this that makes me think @Ben Lamb might be on to something with his Thanos gauntlet.

 

[Kneetopia]

There’s been a lot of surface shitters out there.

 

[timmy]

Interesting maybe putting info on Instagram, hunt forums, or Facebook could have negative impacts. Maybe places we love to visit would be effected. Certainly makes you wonder.

 

[timmy]

I imagine we’ll see many stretches of river with the same restrictions as the Smith in the coming years.

I’m always thankful of where I live. I rode my bike 5 times this week on public land, only five minutes from my front door and didn’t see another person.

I don’t know where you live but I would quit talking.

 

[RobG]

That permit system will become the new normal and the transplants will push it through here. I wish the road to Hyalite was still a bumpy dirt one.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I wish the road to Hyalite was still a bumpy dirt one.

Yes, and so snow packed that it would require all four chained up to get to the reservoir for some ice fishing or hunting.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Seems like SE WY is turning into the new front range. Lots of people this summer in the mountains, and just like everywhere else, lots of trash.