RyGuy
Well-known member
I kid, I kid. And man I hope so. I’ve not heard about that
The "CWD is a HOAX" movement is building
- Thread starter brocksw
- Start date
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Seems like a reasonable perspective to me. Regardless of my personal position.
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Ok. Again, in your view, what should the goal be then, and how should they go about it?I don’t know what they say in the meetings you go to, but the end result in the ones I go to has been no/nearly no deer, regardless of what kills them, in the end.
After they tell you that they’re gonna drastically lower the numbers and deer hunting, because of the implemented increased hunter harvest, will never be the same again, they’re quick to tell you to buy hunting licenses. It seems that they forget hunting licenses purchases are tied to hunter satisfaction.
Lots of people are unhappy with how states are approaching CWD. So what would you do instead?
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
I guess I’m not following your first thought here. How are agencies incentivized to not fix the problem? Since there really hasn’t been any funding for research for the last decade, I’m not sure I see the incentive? Could be a blind spot for me.
My point you quoted came from the perspective that the cervid farming industry has put tons of money into some pretty questionable “research” to minimize the perception that game farms contribute to CWD introduction.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond, HW. Where did you read that states aren’t receiving funding to research and address CWD? I am fairly certain they are (a quick search confirmed tens of millions $ this year alone), but perhaps that’s a blind spot for me.
Agree with your second point 100%, don’t even get me started on deer farms and they role they have played in all of this.
Agree with your second point 100%, don’t even get me started on deer farms and they role they have played in all of this.
I wouldn’t artificially reduce the herd when cwd was detected in an area. CWD has been around, since what, the 60s? What would you do? The same thing that’s been done, but hasn’t worked?
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Damn! That's good money. I remember being paid $1.82/hr for teaching labs at MSU (2nd tier). I guess I'm older than you...
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
I’m not sure we are talking apples to apples here maybe?
Yes, money still goes to states. That hasn’t changed. However, almost none of it goes to research, or even wildlife for that matter. The majority used to (and I strongly suspect still does) go to state Departments of Livestock to fund regulatory and other programs for the captive cervid industry. The remainder goes primarily to surveillance, which also has a regulatory bent because there’s a need to know where CWD is in order to regulate interstate commerce and importation of cervids. The Livestock Associations are very effective lobbyists. IIRC, the amount going to most states wildlife agencies was far less than what went to DOL in the states I was most familiar with. What the wildlife agencies get doesn’t even cover statewide surveillance, as most have to use a rolling surveillance strategy and only test a handful of units each year. This is why some people have to pay to have their own samples tested - the state really doesn’t have the money to test them all. So I would say they are not getting enough to meet their needs. And yes, surveillance is good for telling us about prevalence and distribution, but it does very little to move the needle with regard to our knowledge or understanding of possible solutions.
The major stream that used to be earmarked specifically for wildlife came as a line item in the US Fish and Wildlife Service budget. A good chunk of that used to come through our office at the time and we distributed across an 8 state region - anywhere from 12-15 projects annually, some research, some surveillance. CWD wasn’t present yet in most of our states, so the need was primarily surveillance at the time. We funded collaborative projects with multiple states, USGS, NPS. Congress trimmed the funding every year, until 2012 when they zeroed it out. There is currently no national funding mechanism specifically for CWD in wildlife to my knowledge.
NIH and NSF fund some lab-based and university work. The most progress I’ve seen in the research side has been in diagnostic techniques, but we still have need for better tests. But a lot of the research, especially molecular work, is done overseas because there’s limited funding for it here. Even the research that raised the red flag about potential transmission to primates was done in Canada.
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Nope. I would have had us act more swiftly and decisively at the very beginning. That New York example sure makes me wonder what might have been. But that train has long since left the station.
What would you have done?
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Chronic Wasting Disease
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal disease found in deer, elk, and moose that poses a serious threat to wild populations. Consequently, it has the potential to impact all the benefits associated with deer and moose in New York: enjoyment of watching healthy animals; hunting traditions and...
Almost 20 years with no new cases. The only time it’s been tried like that. Everywhere else wasted too much time on hand wringing, or didn’t test enough for early enough detection. If you don’t find it early, this won’t work.
Once it’s endemic, you’ll never kill your way out of it. Once it’s widespread in the environment, you’re screwed.
We've got it pretty bad here in PA now. About half the state has CWD in the wild population to some degree. My prediction is we'll be reinfecting NY in the next decade from its southern border. Unfortunate for them, and curious to see how they handle it.Chronic Wasting Disease
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal disease found in deer, elk, and moose that poses a serious threat to wild populations. Consequently, it has the potential to impact all the benefits associated with deer and moose in New York: enjoyment of watching healthy animals; hunting traditions and...www.dec.ny.gov
Almost 20 years with no new cases. The only time it’s been tried like that. Everywhere else wasted too much time on hand wringing, or didn’t test enough for early enough detection. If you don’t find it early, this won’t work.
Once it’s endemic, you’ll never kill your way out of it. Once it’s widespread in the environment, you’re screwed.
Chronic Wasting Disease
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal disease found in deer, elk, and moose that poses a serious threat to wild populations. Consequently, it has the potential to impact all the benefits associated with deer and moose in New York: enjoyment of watching healthy animals; hunting traditions and...
Almost 20 years with no new cases. The only time it’s been tried like that. Everywhere else wasted too much time on hand wringing, or didn’t test enough for early enough detection. If you don’t find it early, this won’t work.
Once it’s endemic, you’ll never kill your way out of it. Once it’s widespread in the environment, you’re screwed.
The experts say you never get rid of it.
What would you do?
brocksw
Well-known member
Are you dense? She literally, just told you.
On the contrary. I also don’t live in the past. Unless she does or you do, that ship has sailed.
TwistedSage
Well-known member
Late to the party on this. I may be able to understand doubting the prevalence of CWD or being skeptical of the management, however while CWD may be relatively newly discovered in the 60's in NA. we have know about prion diseases for far longer than that. Scrapie in sheep/goats and CDW are both transmissible spongiform encephalopathy diseases. TSE diseases in sheep and goats have been documented for over 240 years. While it's not an apples to apples comparison and the management of captive livestock vs wild animals are opposing its all being studied. In the below study scientists have isolated cwd from cervids to experiment with. It is real. The below link has nothing to do with hunting, just showing that when you remove the hunting or game management angle out of if you are left with the facts that it is still very much real.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Primary transmission of chronic wasting disease versus scrapie prions from small ruminants to transgenic mice expressing ovine or cervid prion protein - PMC
Development of mice expressing either ovine (Tg338) or cervid (TgElk) prion protein (PrP) have aided in characterization of scrapie and chronic wasting disease (CWD), respectively. Experimental inoculation of sheep with CWD prions has demonstrated ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
brocksw
Well-known member
ahhh, so first you asked "what would you have done?", and now you're asking what she would do now with current variables being what they are?
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
The joy of the Internet forum - never ending shifting of questions by folks who aren’t going to listen to the answers anyway - par for the course.
TN_Rifle_Junkie
Well-known member
I only wish that Tennessee would buy into this theory.Chronic Wasting Disease
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal disease found in deer, elk, and moose that poses a serious threat to wild populations. Consequently, it has the potential to impact all the benefits associated with deer and moose in New York: enjoyment of watching healthy animals; hunting traditions and...
Almost 20 years with no new cases. The only time it’s been tried like that. Everywhere else wasted too much time on hand wringing, or didn’t test enough for early enough detection. If you don’t find it early, this won’t work.
Once it’s endemic, you’ll never kill your way out of it. Once it’s widespread in the environment, you’re screwed.
brocksw
Well-known member
It's certainly not uncommon. But, his question about HW's opinion on what she "would've done" versus what she would "do" today with current factors the way they are, is valid. She acknowledges that what she would've done wouldn't work if not caught early. Many states with CWD are past that option. It's already taken hold enough on the landscape where aggressive culling would probably not result in the same outcome that NY experienced. Although, I think if he seriously wanted to know, he could probably deduce her opinions by reading further back in the thread.
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