Tax welfare

[Ben Lamb]

I like the thought of someone agreeing with me...but I think you took a running start from my post and went straight off a cliff. I disagree with almost everything you wrote after "...we have a country." But especially, I disagree with "we also need a system where the work you do pays enough to live where you do." I think one of the things our country has done right (common language, laws, etc across the country) is made it extremely easy to physically move anywhere there is better opportunity. I think that people that stay where they are (and complain about their situation) are just afraid of change. Do we not celebrate our ancestors that had the fortitude to leave their homelands in search of better lives for themselves and their descendants?

It's easy to think that because there are few physical barriers to movement, that it's easy. But when the choice is between spending everything you have to maintain a roof over your head, and moving with no prospects or job lined up, then I think it's easy to see how that doesn't happen. In the great rural exodus that's been happening for decades, it's because jobs were plentiful in urban areas. Now those jobs are overseas or mechanized, leaving lower paying jobs & increased competition for them.

Cost of living as well in urban areas is oftem times much, much higher than elsewhere, so being able to save enough to move you & your family just isn't realistic.

But I'm glad you agree with me.

 

[LWC55]

Absolutely agree that we have a country that subsidizes the indentured servitude of citizens through welfare. But we also need a system where the work you do pays enough to live where you do. People work 3 jobs & still can't get by. Housing costs are out of hand in most towns & cities. Food costs create insecurity & obesity because we've subsidized corn to the point that it's cheaper to by doritos than fresh fruit & veg.

There is already a system like. Go ask the people of Venezuela. It is incredible and all the citizens all lived happily ever after...

 

[COEngineer]

moving with no prospects or job lined up

I think the internet has all but elminated this situation. It's not 1900. You can find almost any job anywhere in the US online. Even if we didn't have the internet (like my ancestors and yours), shouldn't we reward those that are willing to take some risk? Or are we pretending to live in socialist utopia where everyone benefits?

 

[Ben Lamb]

He's my challenge to you guys who think it's easy to work enough on a minimum wage job to not live off of welfare, move to another part of the country sigh-unseen w/no support network or job prospect or skill set that is transferable: Do it and tell us how easy it is.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think the internet has all but elminated this situation. It's not 1900. You can find almost any job anywhere in the US online. Even if we didn't have the internet (like my ancestors and yours), shouldn't we reward those that are willing to take some risk? Or are we pretending to live in socialist utopia where everyone benefits?

If you are white and educated.

Your statement is true for me and you, it is not for most of my neighbors.

 

[Doublecluck]

Ummm, I know about 20-30 people who moved from entirely different countries like Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, with no skill set other than being raised with good family values and hard work ethic, and they all make over minimum wage, 30-40 per hour, some over 100,000 a year as subs. Most all own homes, and the only ones using welfare are taking advantage of the system. Not hypothetical people, these are people that I personally know many of whom were employees of mine at one time. And they make anyone born and raised in this country who claims things like this look like fools.

 

[LWC55]

He's my challenge to you guys who think it's easy to work enough on a minimum wage job to not live off of welfare, move to another part of the country sigh-unseen w/no support network or job prospect or skill set that is transferable: Do it and tell us how easy it is.

Minimum wage jobs are for kids and young people just starting out in the workforce. If you show up to work and do a good job you will not make minimum wage very long. If you are in an industry where most of the jobs are minimum wage, work there for a while to show that you can work, then move on to a better industry. There is almost always (not during Great Depression) a high demand for motivated, hard workers whether skilled or not.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Food costs create insecurity & obesity because we've subsidized corn to the point that it's cheaper to by doritos than fresh fruit & veg.

Do you honestly believe that the

He's my challenge to you guys who think it's easy to work enough on a minimum wage job to not live off of welfare, move to another part of the country sigh-unseen w/no support network or job prospect or skill set that is transferable: Do it and tell us how easy it is.

If you are working a minimum wage job and you are not still in High School then you most likely have made a series of crappy life choices. I agree that moving you and your family while working minimum wage jobs is difficult if not impossible. Which is why, by the time you are self-reliant and have a family you are suppose to have worked your way beyond minimum wage.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Minimum wage jobs are for kids and young people just starting out in the workforce. If you show up to work and do a good job you will not make minimum wage very long. If you are in an industry where most of the jobs are minimum wage, work there for a while to show that you can work, then move on to a better industry. There is almost always (not during Great Depression) a high demand for motivated, hard workers whether skilled or not.

This is not true. Not anymore. It also ignores the past history before the minimum wage, and why FDR fought so hard for it. His reasoning wasn't about entry level, it was about not paying people less than what they need to live.

Today, through a combination of low hourly rates & skirting full time employment mandates, workers in the US work harder for less money than previous generations. You can actually work 80 hours a week above minimum wage, but still fall solidly under the poverty line.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Do you honestly believe that the

If you are working a minimum wage job and you are not still in High School then you most likely have made a series of crappy life choices. I agree that moving you and your family while working minimum wage jobs is difficult if not impossible. Which is why, by the time you are self-reliant and have a family you are suppose to have worked your way beyond minimum wage.

This assumes that people are not out there actively working against workers.

 

[jbowlin]

Ummm, I know about 20-30 people who moved from entirely different countries like Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, with no skill set other than being raised with good family values and hard work ethic, and they all make over minimum wage, 30-40 per hour, some over 100,000 a year as subs. Most all own homes, and the only ones using welfare are taking advantage of the system. Not hypothetical people, these are people that I personally know many of whom were employees of mine at one time. And they make anyone born and raised in this country who claims things like this look like fools.

this can't be true......everyone needs at least 4 years of free college to get jobs like that.

 

[Doublecluck]

Minimum wage jobs are for kids and young people just starting out in the workforce. If you show up to work and do a good job you will not make minimum wage very long. If you are in an industry where most of the jobs are minimum wage, work there for a while to show that you can work, then move on to a better industry. There is almost always (not during Great Depression) a high demand for motivated, hard workers whether skilled or not.

Right! Its laughable, my 17 y/o daughter had worked at Taco Bell since she was 16, they are so hard up for good employees they changed the rules for her as a part time employee to make her a shift manager, she made 16.50 a hour, part time, minor, attending high school. She just quit a few weeks back because she got a job making more somewhere else. This might sound insensitive, but if you are making minimum wage in this country right now you either choose to or your only skill set is having a pulse.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Minimum wage jobs are for kids and young people just starting out in the workforce. If you show up to work and do a good job you will not make minimum wage very long. If you are in an industry where most of the jobs are minimum wage, work there for a while to show that you can work, then move on to a better industry. There is almost always (not during Great Depression) a high demand for motivated, hard workers whether skilled or not.

In 2017, 80.4 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 542,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.3 million had wages below the federal minimum.

 

[COEngineer]

He's my challenge to you guys who think it's easy to work enough on a minimum wage job to not live off of welfare, move to another part of the country sigh-unseen w/no support network or job prospect or skill set that is transferable: Do it and tell us how easy it is.

I did this 23 yrs ago. I dropped out of college and moved to Denver from the Midwest (I had my clothes and a microwave that my Dad gave me; I had a car too, but it barely worked so I walked to work until I saved enough to buy a bicycle). I worked part time at Best Buy during the day and did a valet job at night. I lived in a 'crappy' apartment next to the interstate and then moved to a slightly less crappy townhouse that I shared with a guy I met at work. 18 months later, I went back to college (grants and loans, $0 from my parents).

I won't say it was easy (no one but you suggested it would be). But it was worth it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ummm, I know about 20-30 people who moved from entirely different countries like Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, with no skill set other than being raised with good family values and hard work ethic, and they all make over minimum wage, 30-40 per hour, some over 100,000 a year as subs. Most all own homes, and the only ones using welfare are taking advantage of the system. Not hypothetical people, these are people that I personally know many of whom were employees of mine at one time. And they make anyone born and raised in this country who claims things like this look like fools.

I think citing the exception as the rule is a bad idea, and ignores a lot of other external factors in their cases.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I did this 23 yrs ago. I dropped out of college and moved to Denver from the Midwest (I had my clothes and a microwave that my Dad gave me; I had a car too, but it barely worked so I walked to work until I saved enough to buy a bicycle). I worked part time at Best Buy during the day and did a valet job at night. I lived in a 'crappy' apartment next to the interstate and then moved to a slightly less crappy townhouse that I shared with a guy I met at work. 18 months later, I went back to college (grants and loans, $0 from my parents).

I won't say it was easy (no one but you suggested it would be). But it was worth it.

YOu did this in a time when it was affordable to do so. Today is a much different economic climate than 23 years ago. Do it today. In this economic climate.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

If you are working a minimum wage job and you are not still in High School then you most likely have made a series of crappy life choices. I agree that moving you and your family while working minimum wage jobs is difficult if not impossible. Which is why, by the time you are self-reliant and have a family you are suppose to have worked your way beyond minimum wage.

“We must learn to regard people less in the light of what they do or omit to do, and more in the light of what they suffer.” — Dietrich Bonhoeffer

 

[BigHornRam]

YOu did this in a time when it was affordable to do so. Today is a much different economic climate than 23 years ago. Do it today. In this economic climate.

You must have watched too much of last night's debate, Ben.

 

[Ben Lamb]

“We must learn to regard people less in the light of what they do or omit to do, and more in the light of what they suffer.” — Dietrich Bonhoeffer

This Bonhoeffer dude is a total loser. Socialist & he had low ratings. Sad!

 

[LWC55]

Ben and Bill. Y'all sure make a lot of excuses for people. Probably more excuses than the folks in those situations. Me thinks this is part of the problem.