Tariffs

[longbow51]

Agree. Sounds like why I am suspect of buying things online. But don't forget the 80's when Japanese cars were all the rage because the quality of American-made cars went down the drain. Competition is good, but Americans hate losing.

It wasn't so much that American quality went down. Edwards Deming approached US companies first when he asked what the last step on the assembly line was and was told, "that's where we fix them". He developed total quality improvement, but Ford et. al rejected it, as they were selling cars like hotcakes.

He went to Japan, devastated post-war, and they jumped on the idea. When Toyota entered the market and people discovered you could actually drive a car for years with little other than routine maintenance, they flocked to them, and US companies were forced to adopt similar quality protocols, what the Japanese call kaizen, continuous quality improvement.

As far as the tariffs go, not my area of expertise. I do know that when our kids were in Germany, most products on the shelves were made in Germany due to tariffs, and the German economy was very strong until they went Green and faltered.

I don't understand why it's OK that we can't export goods yet readily import.

Also, lots of kids today think they'll never own houses, largely because we've become a service economy. When manufacturing left, the middle class was destroyed.

And, guiltily, I don't feel good about buying things made by child slaves, so an alternative would be nice.

 

[Forkyfinder]

It wasn't so much that American quality went down. Edwards Deming approached US companies first when he asked what the last step on the assembly line was and was told, "that's where we fix them". He developed total quality improvement, but Ford et. al rejected it, as they were selling cars like hotcakes.

He went to Japan, devastated post-war, and they jumped on the idea. When Toyota entered the market and people discovered you could actually drive a car for years with little other than routine maintenance, they flocked to them, and US companies were forced to adopt similar quality protocols, what the Japanese call kaizen, continuous quality improvement.

As far as the tariffs go, not my area of expertise. I do know that when our kids were in Germany, most products on the shelves were made in Germany due to tariffs, and the German economy was very strong until they went Green and faltered.

I don't understand why it's OK that we can't export goods yet readily import.

Also, lots of kids today think they'll never own houses, largely because we've become a service economy. When manufacturing left, the middle class was destroyed.

And, guiltily, I don't feel good about buying things made by child slaves, so an alternative would be nice.

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I was curious about that. Under 35 home ownership was 45% in 1990 to 39% in 2022. Honestly i expected a bigger drop - that much could be explained by a lot of factors. A lot of young people i know dont want to be tied down to the maintenance, long term ownership (staying in one place for a long time), and many are also starting a lot of traditional aspects of being an adult later (children, marriage, etc).

 

[Nameless Range]

I don't know much about tariffs, but all the economists and internet corners I read on either side of the political spectrum sans the MAGA acolytes make these seem to be nonsensical.

In the end I think 2 things: 1) The executive branch has far too much power under this phony guise of "emergencies", and congress needs to rectify it, or those praising the current state of affairs will be whinging endlessly in 4,8, or 12 years when the other guy flexes their might. 2) The proof will be in the pudding of whether or not things get way more expensive. Folks will feel that and no amount of internet cope will put money in their bank accounts.

Our household income is something like 180% of the average for Montana. We have some toys, but live fairly modestly. Our 2 primary vehicles both have over 250,000 miles on them. My daughter has had to have 2 surgeries in 2025, and I spent 4 hours on the phone yesterday chasing down what the hell is happening with our insurance, because it looks like I will be making basically a car payment on her medical bills through 2028 to cover this shit - and I have better insurance than most. Not much is left over monthly. This isn't a pity party, I'm just saying that I wonder that if anything can erode political fealty, it will be folks unable to pay their bills. "It's the economy stupid" comes to mind.

 

[Hem]

My wife and I were laughing thus morning how all of a sudden Gianforte and his Senate don't seem so bad after all.

 

[TOGIE]

I don't know much about tariffs, but all the economists and internet corners I read on either side of the political spectrum sans the MAGA acolytes make these seem to be nonsensical.

In the end I think 2 things: 1) The executive branch has far too much power under this phony guise of "emergencies", and congress needs to rectify it, or those praising the current state of affairs will be whinging endlessly in 4,8, or 12 years when the other guy flexes their might. 2) The proof will be in the pudding of whether or not things get way more expensive. Folks will feel that and no amount of internet cope will put money in their bank accounts.

Our household income is something like 180% of the average for Montana. We have some toys, but live fairly modestly. Our 2 primary vehicles both have over 250,000 miles on them. My daughter has had to have 2 surgeries in 2025, and I spent 4 hours on the phone yesterday chasing down what the hell is happening with our insurance, because it looks like I will be making basically a car payment on her medical bills through 2028 to cover this shit - and I have better insurance than most. Not much is left over monthly. This isn't a pity party, I'm just saying that I wonder that if anything can erode political fealty, it will be folks unable to pay their bills. "It's the economy stupid" comes to mind.

On one hand it's puzzling and on another not puzzling at all the defiance and ignorance to history on this.

The two other times this has played out in history two things followed: 1) depression, and 2) political decimation. Also, of note, McKinley's assassination.

Which leads one to suspect Trump has ulterior motives in all of this or he truly think it will work this time. Both are fairly concerning to me. One things for sure, and i agree with your last couple sentences, politically you can't outrun a bad economy and struggling voters, especially when the cause and effect is less fuzzy.

 

[Redmt]

Something I'm seeing is people are panicking and buying things before the tariffs actually take hold. I'm looking at tires that I won't need until next winter, although I buy American made. The wife has been wanting a new washer as the new GE we bought a few years ago sucks. It works ok but for whatever reason she doesn't like it. All of a sudden instead of buying stuff when we need it and paying for it, we're buying stuff we don't need yet and paying on 0% plastic. I see it coming where retailers are going to be cutting prices just to get rid of products that they can't sell because of the tariff price increases.

 

[brymoore]

Something hunting related with tariffs.

I was pricing out a rifle build yesterday and I realized most of the components now have tariffs.

Tikka donor rifle (Finland). Barrel is American but cost is up 25% due to steel tariffs. Riflescope - looked at Maven but then saw made in Japan (24% tariff). OK, I normally use Leopold. $500ish scope and then I noticed assembled in America. Fancy way to say foreign parts. More tariff increases. I priced a suppressor I bought previously and its price is up roughly 25% in two years. Price shift might be steel tariff related. It’s American made.

 

[cgasner1]

Something hunting related with tariffs.

I was pricing out a rifle build yesterday and I realized most of the components now have tariffs.

Tikka donor rifle (Finland). Barrel is American but cost is up 25% due to steel tariffs. Riflescope - looked at Maven but then saw made in Japan (24% tariff). OK, I normally use Leopold. $500ish scope and then I noticed assembled in America. Fancy way to say foreign parts. More tariff increases. I priced a suppressor I bought previously and its price is up roughly 25% in two years. Price shift might be steel tariff related. It’s American made.

Cost is up since when?

 

[Redmt]

Something hunting related with tariffs.

I was pricing out a rifle build yesterday and I realized most of the components now have tariffs.

Tikka donor rifle (Finland). Barrel is American but cost is up 25% due to steel tariffs. Riflescope - looked at Maven but then saw made in Japan (24% tariff). OK, I normally use Leopold. $500ish scope and then I noticed assembled in America. Fancy way to say foreign parts. More tariff increases. I priced a suppressor I bought previously and its price is up roughly 25% in two years. Price shift might be steel tariff related. It’s American made.

As I remember Leupold is fully American made with American products.

 

[Nick87]

As I remember Leupold is fully American made with American products.

Not anymore or at least not all the products.

 

[longbow51]

As I remember Leupold is fully American made with American products.

All Leupold glass is from Europe, Japan, or, in the lower end, Philippines and maybe at the very low end, China. The only domestic optic I know of is the Vortex Razor AMG (American Made Glass).

 

[Redmt]

From the Leupold website. It says American manufacturing. It doesn't say exclusively American components. I will still buy Leupold over other manufacturers who proudly place a Made in China sticker on their scopes

 

[Nick87]

From the Leupold website. It says American manufacturing. It doesn't say exclusively American components. I will still buy Leupold over other manufacturers who proudly place a Made in China sticker on their scopesView attachment 366741

They assemble it in USA. A lot of things are that way.

 

[morley.tyler]

It wasn't so much that American quality went down.

Please tell me more about the high-quality and forward-thinking design work of the US auto industry from 1975 to 1990.
Our cars got so bad that WWII Marines considered Japanese cars.

 

[Redmt]

Please tell me more about the high-quality and forward-thinking design work of the US auto industry from 1975 to 1990.
Our cars got so bad that WWII Marines considered Japanese cars.

View attachment 366742 View attachment 366743 View attachment 366744View attachment 366745

You forgot the Pinto and the Oldsmobile Tornado diesel

 

[SAJ-99]

I don't understand why it's OK that we can't export goods yet readily import.

We export a lot of stuff, it just isn’t physical stuff. It’s software and knowledge. The reason we don’t make as much physical stuff is because our wage rate is 2x-10x many other countries. We import stuff because we like cheaper stuff. Interesting is we put a Real Estate guy in charge that doesn't know anything about manufacturing anything either.

 

[Rainer]

Interesting is we put a Real Estate guy in charge that doesn't know anything about manufacturing anything either.

He also went bankrupt 5 times. He even owned a casino and couldn't make money.

 

[LuketheDog]

He also went bankrupt 5 times.

That means nothing, real estate is extremely volatile and the more you risk the more you can lose.

 

[Nick87]

I've never ran my own business, well not for my main source of income anyway. so I guess I won't say if I would make it or not. But it is amusing to compare someone who filed bankruptcy while doing business to literally any lifelong politician who couldn't budget a lemonade stand.

 

[RG300]

I'm hearing there will be intense negotiations over the weekend...see who blinks first.
I don't think it will be Trump, he is not a politician.
Europe, China, Canada.....they all know if we go down....so will they & the way things were pre-tariff was not fair.

That said, whatever happens, happens... we all will survive.