Taking clients hunting: Give me pointers

[2rocky]

Now for the sake of discussion I'm talking about an upland game hunt, on private land, probably with planted birds at a preserve. Maybe a round of Sporting clays after the morning hunt .
What makes this a worthwhile Business entertainment expense?
Would a "meeting" on the product or service preceding the hunt be worthwhile?
Should this be an existing client rather than a prospect?
Is there a better individual to take hunting on the company's dime? Like your boss or a valued employee or sales agent? Think Corporate rather than Small Business perspective.

What are the Do's and especially the Don'ts...
.

 

[npaden]

A couple local banks do something like this. One does a somewhat canned pheasant hunt with the guides running dogs and then an awesome lunch afterwards. Another just does a skeet shooting tournament with a morning flight and afternoon flight with a nice lunch for everyone in the middle,

They invite some of the larger business clients to them.

 

[D_Walt]

Don’t worry about discussing specifics, that kind of an outing is a relationship building event in which you and your client learn a little about each other. You’re not out to be best buddies but when business issues arise on either end later on, having a little knowledge of the guy on the other end of the phone can make a big difference in trusting that the other party will work to find a solution. Helps make your business relationships more than merely transactional.

 

[wolfpup]

Are you asking about whether or not this is a tax write off? or experiences on what and who to take to benefit you the most?

 

[reallyoldman]

I have done a lot of these hunts both as a client and as a supplier. Many fishing trips to Alaska and Canada, elk hunting in Colorado and many pheasant hunts. I found that the chemistry of the group is the most important item. If you get the square peg with the round hole it can ruin the experience. My goal was always to get to know each other better and size up what we had in common. Mixed groups take some plotting and planning. Single company groups always were best coordinated with the leader of the group thus removing some of th potential conflicts and empowering the leader which always helps. Knowing what to expect from the destination supplier is of utmost importance, Never skimp, it will show.

 

[mmazour]

I do this annually and you are on the right track. A planted bird deal is always a great option as it works for all levels of hunting...key is to know your clients expectations - do they need more catered to or not? Do they want to shoot a lot of birds or just get out and enjoy some time away and a nice meal? An example is me - I do not like golf nor do I golf well. However I will go on client golf events and enjoy hanging out, having some drinks etc....so if you spent a ton on me to the fanciest course or took me to the local country club, it would not matter to ME. However to some, getting to just see some course, might be a great experience. Knowing your clients will guide the HOW you execute the event, where, and what amenities. Not everyone "hunts" the same....I have guided these events for others and hosted them myself....and that key of how you do it and what emphasis on activities need to be catered to the client. Just like getting kids into hunting - make it a good experience for them. As mentioned above, these events are about relationships - finding common interests, sharing some time, etc. Spend MORE focus on that. If a work topic comes up, it does, but these always go better if the focus is on the relationship. Then as mentioned, you have a relationship that is not just a transaction, and that lasts longer.
That said to "expense" the trip, I have seen some sales reps have to give a SHORT presentation (was an ag chemical rep I believe with a bunch of clients) and he just made it as casual as possible and literally told the guys "hey in order for me to expense all these drinks for you fellas, I gotta pull up the powerpoint so just give me 5 min)....I was just watching from the bar as a guide, but the team took it well, listened to him for 5-10 min, he wrapped up and they went back to dinner drinks and socializing until midnight. So it can be done - would just not make it an agenda item if you don't have to.
Definitely recommend some clay shooting ahead of hunt (day before, morning of, etc..) - it not only gives practice but also lets you see how clients handle firearms in the field. It perhaps gives you a chance to work with them and improve their shooting which in turn improves their experience. But it also lets you find the ones that you need to watch out for and catch safety issues upfront....then they can get caught before the heat of a moment of a point and flush. I used to guide some hunts for a non-profit group (not to be named) that awarded trips....and those were some of the scariest days afield I had for me and my dogs. But then we incorporated a clays event prior, and we were able to guide/fix/adjust things much better and safety infractions in the field dropped dramatically.
To your other questions - sometimes for a specific client, maybe just you and them? Maybe you see if there is someone they want to treat and bring along from their company or family...you don't want where they just bring their buddy they hunt with regularly). Other times, it might be great to treat a bunch of clients at the same time - again depends on interests, your budget and what you are targeting. Feel free to ask more, but it more should be structured with what you are trying to achieve.

 

[morley.tyler]

make your business relationships more than merely transactional

THIS!!

 

[Sheltowee]

When in doubt, read the rules: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf

 

[Wild Bill]

When in doubt, read the rules: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf

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Don't bring the IRS into this....

 

[Salmonchaser]

Guided these kinds of groups for seven years. As noted above getting the guys on the trap range before the hunt can reveal potential safety concerns and give the rookies a chance to improve their shooting and have, perhaps, a better experience. Side bets, first bird most bird kind of things are dangerous. I’ve seen two dogs killed, sent a couple of folks from the field for safety violations, lots of dangerous gun handling, all occurred because of side bets. Probably not the place to have two guys who have hated each other for 10 or 20 years trying to work out their differences. That being said I really enjoyed most of the groups and they had a lot of fun.

 

[Steiny77]

I've done lots of this sort of thing. Best advice I could give would be just have fun and develop a relationship.
Keep business out of it, this is for fun. Don't even talk about business unless they bring it up and then keep it brief.

Hunting, fishing, golf, boating, whatever ....... a few hours away from work with a client can be great for building long term business relationships.

I retired 7 years ago and still remain friends and stay in touch with a few of the clients we did this sort of thing with. They've become friends rather than clients, and who better to do business with than a friend?

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

I've done pheasants on a preserve from a sales perspective.
Couple of thoughts
Typically see existing clients brought in as a thank you for your business idea. Have seen prospective clients, but usually that's a waste of money. Too often you spend lavishly trying to impress them but it's always business as usual after. I would rather reward those that give you good business.

Spending the night before is the most important part. Then you get dinner and drinking with the group to build up team work and the relationship before hunting


Clays are always worthwhile if you can fit it in to the schedule. Heck doing sporting clays instead of pheasants can be a good for a large group


Keep safety in mind. Large group preserve hunting results in people taking ill advised shots to get birds. Always require eye protection at a min so someone doesn't take a BB to the eye or worse

 

[Sheltowee]

Don't bring the IRS into this....

Sounded like he was asking what constitutes a defined term. If he's just wanting to take someone on a hunting trip to recruit business:

 

[seeth07]

When in doubt, read the rules: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf

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It isn't entertainment however if its a business meeting. All you have to do on such an event is discuss business and it becomes an event that is a business meeting and not just entertainment. We do it all the time.

 

[rjthehunter]

I'll second the sporting clays before the hunt.

We do this pretty regurarely in the fall. Focus mostly on having fun and building a personal connection with said person. Don't focus on business. A personal connection is typically easier to make (for me at least) then the business relationship follows along.

Don't overthink it. Go out, have fun, shoot some birds, and enjoy the time with a client.

For a few of my clients, it's one of the only times they get to go out and shoot birds because of their busy schedules.

PS, make sure you're not too quick on the trigger. Let them shoot once and awhile too!

 

[wolfpup]

It isn't entertainment however if its a business meeting. All you have to do on such an event is discuss business and it becomes an event that is a business meeting and not just entertainment. We do it all the time.

The devil is in the details. It you have an promotional event as you say... it belongs in your advertising and promotional line item. "Entertainment" is not deductible so simply don't code it to that line item.

 

[Steiny77]

Couple of thoughts
Typically see existing clients brought in as a thank you for your business idea. Have seen prospective clients, but usually that's a waste of money. Too often you spend lavishly trying to impress them but it's always business as usual after. I would rather reward those that give you good business.

Excellent points !
Most anybody in sales for long has spent a lot of time and $$ to try and sell prospects, then got the shaft due to their relationship with your competitor or simply low price.
Spend the $$ on those that spend $$ with you.

 

[Treeshark]

It isn't entertainment however if its a business meeting. All you have to do on such an event is discuss business and it becomes an event that is a business meeting and not just entertainment. We do it all the time.

I don’t think that’s exactly how it works… sure wish it did though.

*I would love to be wrong on this, but I know it is not the case in my line of work.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I don’t think that’s exactly how it works… sure wish it did though.

*I would love to be wrong on this, but I know it is not the case in my line of work.

Its exactly how it works.

 

[Treeshark]

Its exactly how it works.

Are you sure about that? Hunting trips are specifically outlined as non-deductible.