Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Apparently the prepers prefer guns
Suspend Pittman-Robertson Federal Excise Tax?
- Thread starter Oak
- Start date
Apparently the prepers prefer guns
LopeHunter
Well-known member
Agreed. I am not buying a lot of excise tax items right now but those funds are needed now as much or more than last year. I can see a lot of F&G departments hurting. Sales tax, business tax and personal tax collections should be down from 2019 so seeking General Funds will be tricky. Out-of-state travel or access to certain lands and campsites may be restricted so that would be a problem. Even if every tag can be hunted this autumn then the fall in stocks, housing values (oh, it's coming), self-employed/small business income and workers used to OT now drawing unemployment may lessen who need to chase a $1000 elk tag with 20% harvest odds or Eastern WY pronghorn leftover tag at NR rates. There should be a lot of out-of-state hunters staying on the sidelines until 2021 where things could be more predictable. I am curious if will see stats for 2020 NM applicants that pulled applications out of the draw.
6mm Remington
Well-known member
I think it would be a mistake to suspend these much needed funds for agencies across the U.S. They struggle to get by with money they get anyway and this would really hurt our wildlife agencies. It's folks like us that are a lot of the reason our wildlife populations including non-game animals are doing as well as they are. Our dollars contribute greatly as does boots on the ground work. Don't drop it.
The Yetti
Well-known member
Doesn't seem like a good idea to me says the BATF gave a 90 day suspension to the firearm industry, seems like a bad time to do it as all these firearm sales could of been great for the agencies!
jryoung
Well-known member
Feels like the same call from a few elected folks in DC calling for a suspension on Oil and Gas Royalties.
D
Deleted member 28227
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Wait... who has prime bows on sale for 80% off?
I agree, they shouldn't get a pass either... but that context is slightly different.beginnerhunter
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But these PR taxes are already baked into the cost of the goods, right? So they're asking for special relief on top of whatever eligibility they have from the CARES act. I dont have any problem with trade organizations lobbying for special economic considerations (mine is doing it constantly), but don't jeopardize something as sacred as PR.
MO Betta
Well-known member
Edit: Had a kneejerk reaction and didn't fully comprehend what was happening. I wrongly interpreted that during this 90 day period items would be free of excise tax, not a deferral of paying the excise tax to the government. I do hope this deferral does not severely impact the areas these funds are to apply to.
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jmveverka
Active member
Not trying to make ya'll angry, but this is much ado about nothing. Everyone needs to reflect that businesses need major help to stay afloat during this emergency. This is not intended to shortchange PR funding - it is a delay in the tax filing due date - so that businesses can keep that money in their accounts to cover other expenses while emergency orders are in effect and they are not "doing business". After the orders are lifted, that money will come due. This is no different than delaying the due date for your federal income tax. Everyone still has to pay and this will have no negative impact on revenue. Other federal taxes that have already been deferred include wine, beer, distilled spirits, tobacco products, cigarette papers and tubes, firearms, and ammunition, States and Localities across the country have deferred property taxes and sales taxes.
If this is accurate, it appears this is internet forum at its finest. One poses a situation, many share frustration / disappointment, then more clarity is introduced...
In case some are reading it that the tax is eliminated for a period of time, that is not how I read it. The tax is still due as normal, but the submission to the USFWS by these manufacturers is suspended for whatever period of time. Thus, the companies get to use the money as working capital for the time being. They have passed the tax on to consumers and consumers have paid the tax in the form of the end price, so the companies are sitting on a pool of money due to someone (USFWS), but Congress is telling them to hold on to it for their short-term working capital needs.
This is somewhat like the payroll tax deferral program that is currently available to small businesses. They collect the taxes out of the employee paychecks and normally would have to submit to the IRS within three days, two weeks, or a month, depending on the size of the employer. Now, these small businesses get to hold on to that money as working capital and have two years to repay (simple explanation).
I am sure there will be many small businesses that don't survive. Payroll taxes are not dischargeable in many bankruptcy proceedings. There will be a lot of small businesses that take advantage of this payroll tax deferral/suspension and still don't make it, leaving the government to try chase down back taxes in a BK proceeding. I can see the same happening with these excise taxes.
The deferral is one thing, even if it is all eventually collected. Reliable cash flow to the states is the bigger question.
Which takes me back to my first post - Who is going to make the payments to the states that rely on this money, if it is not collected under this deferral program? Hopefully Uncle Sam.
If the US Treasury doesn't front this money to the states that they are owed by law in certain amounts and by certain dates, then the US Congress is telling the state wildlife agencies that you are in effect now a bank; you will forego your working capital (P-R funds) needed for your daily operations and we (Congress) will use your money to make zero interest loans to the outdoor industry that may or may not get repaid. If you don't like it, too bad.
That is how Congress does business. This could be a train wreck if it is written/implemented in the manner Congress normally does things.
This is somewhat like the payroll tax deferral program that is currently available to small businesses. They collect the taxes out of the employee paychecks and normally would have to submit to the IRS within three days, two weeks, or a month, depending on the size of the employer. Now, these small businesses get to hold on to that money as working capital and have two years to repay (simple explanation).
I am sure there will be many small businesses that don't survive. Payroll taxes are not dischargeable in many bankruptcy proceedings. There will be a lot of small businesses that take advantage of this payroll tax deferral/suspension and still don't make it, leaving the government to try chase down back taxes in a BK proceeding. I can see the same happening with these excise taxes.
The deferral is one thing, even if it is all eventually collected. Reliable cash flow to the states is the bigger question.
Which takes me back to my first post - Who is going to make the payments to the states that rely on this money, if it is not collected under this deferral program? Hopefully Uncle Sam.
If the US Treasury doesn't front this money to the states that they are owed by law in certain amounts and by certain dates, then the US Congress is telling the state wildlife agencies that you are in effect now a bank; you will forego your working capital (P-R funds) needed for your daily operations and we (Congress) will use your money to make zero interest loans to the outdoor industry that may or may not get repaid. If you don't like it, too bad.
That is how Congress does business. This could be a train wreck if it is written/implemented in the manner Congress normally does things.
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MO Betta
Well-known member
No worries, Oak. The onus was on me to thoroughly read what was happening.
406LIFE
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What happens if there is a defferal and the company still goes under?
rideold
Well-known member
I find it disheartening that this request to defer the payments in order to increase working capital comes on the heels of the second largest gun sales month (March) ever. Call me naive but it seems to me that should have boosted many of those companies bank accounts. I get it that times are tough and are going to get tougher. I just had to furlough half my staff through the end of June and the likelihood of bringing them back is almost nil so yea, I get it. That said, the trickle down effect is going to hamstring the agencies that use the money resulting in bigger layoffs than they would have had to do which just adds to the local economic slowdown. Just seems shortsighted to me.
Bigjay73
Well-known member
Are there payments made to the states on a monthly basis, or is it an end of year lump sum?
Paid once each year. The Secretary of Interior usually have a big whoop-it-up party to announce it like he/she is writing the check out of their personal funds.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
That sounds about right...
I'm not a tax/bankruptcy expert... but it seems to me that the only one's really benefiting from these deferments are institutional lenders.
Chaparral is an OG company that is about to file chapter 11... say their is an excise tax deferment in OK, and they don't have to pay 10 million in taxes. Does anyone really think that's going to their employees? Am I wrong to assume that Chase, JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, and Comerica are the ones going to get a slice of that before the company files.
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
There should be a rule that if you file chapter 11 twice in a five year period, you should win some type of trophy, at least for finding someone stupid enough to loan you money again. Unless you are Argentina.
When the government gives out money, everyone gets in line. A deferral simply buys a little time. I hope it works.
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