Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,643
Will all new Stone Glacier packs come with a free flame thrower?
Stone Glacier Bought Out
- Thread starter morley.tyler
- Start date
Hem
Well-known member
Who needs bullets when you can kill em and cook em simultaneously?
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longbow51
Guest
That's why I don't recommend gear much anymore, other than stuff I know for sure is made in the USA, like Coopers, Western Mountaineering, etc. The stuff I have that lasts forever is not necessarily the same stuff companies put out now.
morley.tyler
Well-known member
I think you're a little too focused on the US Manufacturers. 20 years ago if you'd ever heard of Kia or Hyundai, at best we would mock them. While these two examples might not fit your desire or aesthetic, there is no doubt they've impacted the auto industry. Obviously, to your point Tesla has made massive impacts and brought the mainstream auto giants, kicking and screaming, to new tech.
As far as the Big 3 automakers are concerned... maybe they shouldn't have made the Pacer, or the Gremlin, or the Aztec. or the PT Cruiser.
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Deleted member 28227
Guest
I'm saying in capitalism with rules if you do a crap job your customers leave, there is still competition. Talent is allowed to leave find new backers and create better products.
Standard Oil cheated... and used violence in many cases to get rid of the competition. I think the companies today that we all have issues with are similarly cheating/gaming the system to make sure they win.
I think with cars, the big three should have failed and allowed to go under, this would have created room in the market for lots of new companies, which would have eventually consolidated, and made better more innovative companies. So example of "cheating"... but also geopolitics... a ton of people getting laid off etc. I don't know enough to say if the bail outs were good or bad... but... cheating.
Vista isn't Ford, so I'm not really worried about it.. if SG starts to suck there is plenty of room for someone else to make a better hunting pack, and that's the real point.
Hem
Well-known member
For the record, I'm going to admit I drove a Chevy Chevette with 95k from Massachusetts to Alaska and back again in 1984.
Mounted Police took pity on me and rushed me over the border instead of incarceration somewhere up in the Yukon.
Mounted Police took pity on me and rushed me over the border instead of incarceration somewhere up in the Yukon.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
My parents were taking us to soccer practice in a hyundai excel in the 80s. They've been imported since the 70s.
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Deleted member 28227
Guest
@neffa3 I'll get worried when Vista buys all the buckle companies, all the zipper companies, all the cordura producers, patents the 'meatshelf' and starts having lawyers sue any company that has a similar design. (uses its deep pockets to get that patent)
Obviously Kifaru, MR, Exo etc do, so vista threatens them to sell on the cheap or face years and millions fighting lawsuits. Once purchased those companies are discarded. Then Vista surreptitiously hires PIs to dig up dirt on those companies CEOs and has that leaked to the press to make sure they are 'canceled' just in case they decided to cry foul.
Then Vista looks for any backpack brand start upa and immediately sues them for any frivolous thing possible to make sure they don't have a chance to get off the ground.
Next they ink a deal with Google that makes sure SG packs are the number 1 search result for backpack and any other brands are waay on the back pages...
Then...
Just trying to make the point it's not really buying companies that is the issue as much as unscrupulous and anti-competitive business behavior.
Obviously Kifaru, MR, Exo etc do, so vista threatens them to sell on the cheap or face years and millions fighting lawsuits. Once purchased those companies are discarded. Then Vista surreptitiously hires PIs to dig up dirt on those companies CEOs and has that leaked to the press to make sure they are 'canceled' just in case they decided to cry foul.
Then Vista looks for any backpack brand start upa and immediately sues them for any frivolous thing possible to make sure they don't have a chance to get off the ground.
Next they ink a deal with Google that makes sure SG packs are the number 1 search result for backpack and any other brands are waay on the back pages...
Then...
Just trying to make the point it's not really buying companies that is the issue as much as unscrupulous and anti-competitive business behavior.
jryoung
Well-known member
Comparing an ultra niche market of hunting backpacks to auto makers, big box stores or big tech isnt comparable at all.
I'm totally in agreement of a lack of choices in some markets, most of them have high barriers to entry as well, but the hunting backpack market isn't even close.
I hope that the SG team did this because it was the right decision for them. I hope Vista did it and recognizes what make the brand strong and desirable.
That said, The North Face use to make incredible equipment in the 80s, now they're at Bass Pro.....I have no trouble finding incredible outdoor gear event though several great companies of the past were bought and and turned into commodities.
I'm totally in agreement of a lack of choices in some markets, most of them have high barriers to entry as well, but the hunting backpack market isn't even close.
I hope that the SG team did this because it was the right decision for them. I hope Vista did it and recognizes what make the brand strong and desirable.
That said, The North Face use to make incredible equipment in the 80s, now they're at Bass Pro.....I have no trouble finding incredible outdoor gear event though several great companies of the past were bought and and turned into commodities.
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Irrelevant
Well-known member
My original comment was not intended that no one should be allowed to sell a company, but that it doesn't fit my idea of the American dream. Seems more like flipping houses.
BenInMT
Well-known member
Does anyone know if Kurt is related to Mark Racicot once governor? Famous name. I can’t fault them for building up a brand and selling it, that’s like the American dream for a lot of people. Many business owners have zero exit strategy and only wish they could cash out like this. Good for them.
morley.tyler
Well-known member
I find it interesting that Hyundai is the nail upon which you decided to hang your metaphorical hat... Not the shit cars, designed in the vacuum that was Detroit, from approximately 1972-2002, but I respect your stick-to-it·ive·ness. And while I respect your right to your own opinion, not your own facts. The Hyundai's were not imported until 1986.
Back to the sale of SG to Vista- as I said in my OP this morning, I'm glad those guys got a bag of money for Christmas. They worked hard, focused on product, grew organically, and were also acquired organically. They did not have a book on the street, they were not actively being shopped to the VC's. A customer, who happened to be the CEO of Vista, got to know them and partnered with and bought the business.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
You got me, I should have kept reading... they first exported in 1976, but it was not to the US, that was my assumption, and an incorrect one. I can assure you, I was being driven to soccer in '88 in one.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Here is what I would guess happened. Covid hits, shipping rates skyrocket because of supply chain problems, and SG had trouble finding space on ships to get goods from point A to point B. Larger players like Walmart, Costco, Target, etc start chartering the entire ship (or even just buy the ship) and this problem doesn't look like it is going away. SG, as a small, independent player who was looking to just get a couple of containers transported found itself getting priced out of the market in an environment changed in ways it could never have imagined. So it made complete sense to "partner" with a larger name where combining all the brands could get some suppy-chain power when the need was shipping containers. Scale matters, always has, but more now. Who knows what "normal" looks like going forward.
If I was on the inside and reading the interview with the Vista CEO things like "strong cultural fit" and "synergies" would make me nervous. Those things are business buzz words for cost cutting. If you're a customer, no worries. I doubt you will see any material change in products for years. But read between the lines in the interview. Growth means an expansion of the customer base, the product lines, or a lowering of costs.
You really have to consider capital requirements for new entrants in the industry. These tech companies, Amazon, and Walmart exclude new companies by being big. Retail is much different. Nobody here was disparaging the current SG owners for selling. Customers are wondering what will happen to FUTURE product quality. I'm currently looking for a 36" rectangular down sleeping bag. I'm 6'2" and hate these mummy bags. I did find a company in Poland that might be able to make me a custom bag. Contacted Feather Friends in Seattle, they couldn't do it. Nice people, very helpful. Also contacted Down Works in CA. Guy was a real Whole. I would NEVER buy a feather from them. Totally rude. May the SG guys will get into custom sleeping bags, and insulated tents to compete with Crua.
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longbow51
Guest
I'm still pissed off about Black Dog Beer. And a dear friend of mine had a close descendent of Chugwater Charlie Hill. Stealth-carried them on a Smith River trip (and carried every one out), so don't feel I can comment on this thread.
With such a high growth business, ya don't focus on cost cutting. SG is in high product demand. Vista is investing in the business by building a new retail space and warehouse. They need good, dedicated employees. And that is a tough problem to manage. Vista does have good brands. I was impressed with the CEO interview, both as a customer and an investment manager with 35 years experience, and former small business owner.
We don't have capitalism today. We have Crony Capitalism, kinda like the late 1800s and early 1900s with JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Andrew Carnegie. Now dumbfcks like Pelosi, Biden, Harris, etc etc are involved. Musk goes to them to get a subsidy or pass a law to get new business.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Both of your examples ARE retail that got big by driving small, then medium businesses out. Walmart wasn't born big, nor was AMZN, they built empires by killing competition. Maybe that is the American dream. Maybe that's what everyone wants and strives for, to be the Wilks bros.
geetar
Well-known member
They seem to be doing better quality wise with Remington than Remington was. SG didn’t need an overhaul though so I hope it doesn’t go south. It’s strictly business for them and I get it and it improves the lives of those on the selling end financially. For the consumer though you hate to see it go this way.
