Stayed up too late . . . Sovereign Citizen Saga

VikingsGuy said:
The judge in the bottom link was the picture of calm. I kept watching only to see his seemingly inevitable blowup - which never came.
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I actually feel bad for that renter, I truly think he was confused about how to read a ledger and was conflating the "Credit" line with somebody issuing him credit towards his rent.

Certainly the landlord needs to get paid and will probably have to evict, but I think the renter was simply confused about how the system worked.

I wish the judge would direct him to a financial aid counselor to get him sorted out. He seems like a nice, respectful guy who needs an education.
 
grizzly_ said:
I actually feel bad for that renter, I truly think he was confused about how to read a ledger and was conflating the "Credit" line with somebody issuing him credit towards his rent.

Certainly the landlord needs to get paid and will probably have to evict, but I think the renter was simply confused about how the system worked.

I wish the judge would direct him to a financial aid counselor to get him sorted out. He seems like a nice, respectful guy who needs an education.
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The credit ledger thing is not simple misunderstanding. Part of the crazy theory is that upon birth every “individual” in the US is given $1 million dollars which is placed in an account at the US Treasury and if you just tell someone who you owe money to get payment from that account and they call BS, then “under the UCC” their refusal of this “tender” marks your account with them as paid in full. It is all crazy. There are whole books written about this “shadow” account and how it “works”. All complete fantasy. The thing about “individual” vs person. The part about two people having the same name. The “all cap” name. The personal Treasury account. etc. Every bit of his “confusion” is actually a specific and rationalized part of their belief system. It is a bit of a “matrix” thing.
 
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Interesting you say not much of that in central MN, I knew/know of several. I have an aunt and uncle that cut up their driver's licenses a couple years ago and they are only 50 miles from Minneapolis. Fascinating in a sad way.
 
There are a few around here.
Yesterday the dude was sitting in front of the station smoking and telling all about freedoms and such. I went to pay and told him he had to move his legs and truck . Guy stood up all indignant.
I just said the EMS unit needs fuel and you can come back to yack with the gals after you move it for them.
I'm sure I'll run into the newbie again. Damn Texicans.
 
westbranch said:
Interesting you say not much of that in central MN, I knew/know of several. I have an aunt and uncle that cut up their driver's licenses a couple years ago and they are only 50 miles from Minneapolis. Fascinating in a sad way.
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Fair enough. I guess I need to get out more.
 
Trial153 said:
That these idiots survived until adulthood adulthood, is proof that America is the greatest country in the world.
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I see folks like this falling loosely into three groups. The first is a small number who create and promote this line of thinking. They are aggressively disaffected charlatans and grifters at heart. They are able to spin byzantine theories to line their pockets or push their personal agenda.

The second are truly the idiots, but not just average idiots, rather, the least productive and most disruptive idiots of any community. They need to lash against something, anything to distract from their worthlessness. If not sovereign citizen, then posse comitatus, KKK, antifa, inner city gang member, or aryan nation. They don't so much have a belief system as they have the need of a system to excuse to themselves their bad behavior and general inability to be anything resembling a productive member of their community. They often relish the "bully" role throughout their lives.

The third is a group I have some real sympathy for. They tended to start out hard-working folks just trying to make their own way but get caught up in a modern system they seem to have trouble understanding. Maybe it is less natural intelligence, maybe bad schools, maybe poor parenting when they were kids, etc., but for whatever reason have difficulty really understanding the modern financial and regulatory world that touches us all. They find what they try to work for lost to promissory notes, liens, grazing lease disagreements, land use regulation enforcement, complex small business tax problems, complex/globalized commodity market swings, etc. I imagine to them, the sovereign citizen's explanation of the "UCC" is no more or less byzantine or confusing than a bank or judge describing the actual UCC system when they lose land due to a lien from buying crop inputs. Both are beyond their understanding, but one says they have a million dollars in a secret account and they no longer have to listen to the banker or judge, and the other says they are going to lose that land they tried to buy via contract for deed but fell short at the end. Our modern systems are complex, they can be unforgiving, and they can grind an individual into the ground. Out of hopelessness, they place hope in what we clearly see from a distance as a crazy belief system - but one that seems to them to be no crazier than the one that is "bringing them down". I wish there was a way to help elevate these otherwise hardworking folks out of the death spiral many folks find themselves in these days.
 
VikingsGuy said:
I see folks like this falling loosely into three groups. The first is a small number who create and promote this line of thinking. They are aggressively disaffected charlatans and grifters at heart. They are able to spin byzantine theories to line their pockets or push their personal agenda.

The second are truly the idiots, but not just average idiots, rather, the least productive and most disruptive idiots of any community. They need to lash against something, anything to distract from their worthlessness. If not sovereign citizen, then posse comitatus, KKK, antifa, inner city gang member, or aryan nation. They don't so much have a belief system as they have the need of a system to excuse to themselves their bad behavior and general inability to be anything resembling a productive member of their community. They often relish the "bully" role throughout their lives.

The third is a group I have some real sympathy for. They tended to start out hard-working folks just trying to make their own way but get caught up in a modern system they seem to have trouble understanding. Maybe it is less natural intelligence, maybe bad schools, maybe poor parenting when they were kids, etc., but for whatever reason have difficulty really understanding the modern financial and regulatory world that touches us all. They find what they try to work for lost to promissory notes, liens, grazing lease disagreements, land use regulation enforcement, complex small business tax problems, complex/globalized commodity market swings, etc. I imagine to them, the sovereign citizen's explanation of the "UCC" is no more or less byzantine or confusing than a bank or judge describing the actual UCC system when they lose land due to a lien from buying crop inputs. Both are beyond their understanding, but one says they have a million dollars in a secret account and they no longer have to listen to the banker or judge, and the other says they are going to lose that land they tried to buy via contract for deed but fell short at the end. Our modern systems are complex, they can be unforgiving, and they can grind an individual into the ground. Out of hopelessness, they place hope in what we clearly see from a distance as a crazy belief system - but one that seems to them to be no crazier than the one that is "bringing them down". I wish there was a way to help elevate these otherwise hardworking folks out of the death spiral many folks find themselves in these days.
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What if you’re as blind as the people you’re describing?
But you don’t realize it...
Because you’re blinded by your own belief system...
 
I mean, the guy behind the desk is literally wearing a costume.
And he locks people in cages for non violent crimes.
And he thinks enough of himself to do that.
And don’t prosecutors basically just make up a story without being there and run with it?
 
VikingsGuy said:
Spend a lot of time up in taconite country, where I plan to retire, and haven't seen it there either. Just a matter of time I suppose.
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Nothing stranger than an Iron Ranger. Which I say with affection as my mom grew up there and still have quite a bit of family around there and many worked in the mines. I grew up a bit south. 12 miles to a gas station, 40 miles to Wal-Mart. Close to as rural as it gets with ~120 people in our township. No popular lakes so not as much weekend traffic as other areas. A few more misfits in some of those areas but I think it can be easy to avoid depending on who you know just like anything else. Our neighbors did end up on Finding Bigfoot when they did a MN episode 10+ yrs ago.
 
westbranch said:
Nothing stranger than an Iron Ranger. Which I say with affection as my mom grew up there and still have quite a bit of family around there and many worked in the mines. I grew up a bit south. 12 miles to a gas station, 40 miles to Wal-Mart. Close to as rural as it gets with ~120 people in our township. No popular lakes so not as much weekend traffic as other areas. A few more misfits in some of those areas but I think it can be easy to avoid depending on who you know just like anything else. Our neighbors did end up on Finding Bigfoot when they did a MN episode 10+ yrs ago.
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We are closer to Lake Superior, but I love the place and the people. It is sad to see the economic challenges as it is forced to de-industrialize in favor of a minimum wage seasonal tourist economy.
 
VikingsGuy said:
upon birth ever “individual” in the US is given $1 million dollars which is placed in an account at the US Treasury and if you just tell someone who you owe money to get payment from that account
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Hooooold on! Now there's something I can get behind!! Where do I find these fellow believers?
 
I live in west central MN and it is not prevalent here. I am sure there are a few, but there are not many. I could see rural Todd County housing a few.

Can I just draw that mil out some way and put it in my bank account?
 
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