States that refund Licence Fees

[Northernlilywhite]

Hi All,
I am a NH resident looking to make an annual hunting trip out west for big game I can't hunt back East. I am from the deepest woods of New England so this is a decent investment for me with tags, logistics, fuel, time off, etc, so I want to make sure I am going about this right.

From listening to Randy's podcasts on the Western state draw processes I think I understand how the odds work and the draws work, but what I am struggling to get to is what states are the cheapest.... relatively speaking. I am not talking about the actual tag cost, but the cost of applying unsuccessfully and building up points.

So I have been putting in for Wyoming for Elk and Pronghorn as it doesn't require as much cash out the door and doesn't have as many non-refundable costs. However I want to expand the states I am accumulating points in and get a real game plan for the next 3-6 years of hunting out West.

What I see are three general categories of costs

(1) Tag cost (some states ask for it upfront and refund, others ask for it on successful draw)
(2) Application cost (this is generally a low cost but non refundable ($50 for WY elk for example)
(3) Licence Cost - This is the one that I am asking about. It burns me for states to ask for an out of state resident to pay for an annual hunting licence when we aren't even sure to get a tag. I don't mind paying it if I am actually going to get the opportunity to hunt, but just tacking on $100-200 bucks to the process seems a bit unjustified.

I have done my homework and looked through countless websites for various states but the regulations are not really that clear. I know Wyoming doesn't require it, and New Mexico returns it, and Idaho and AZ charge it upon application and never return it.

Here is my Question: Does anyone know from experience what states have the best refund policies on the Licence Costs or simply don't charge Licence Costs to apply for Big Game tags?

I am hoping some old sage of the draw process can shed some clarity on their lost cost strategy.

Thanks guys

 

[Elkhunter24]

Colorado isn't bad. You can pick refund or leftover draw. what that means is if you don't get picked the first round you can keep your name in the pile if anyone returns theirs. it takes longer to get your money back that way but you have a chance to get a tag longer. also if you don't get drawn you can contact the CDW office in your area and see if anyone has return a tag. hope this helps.

 

[Speeddmn]

Since I live in Utah and have the book next to me, here is how it works for you here.

Utah is a 365 day license, meaning you buy it march 1st, it's good till Feb 28/29th depending on year. If you want the combo (Hunting/fishing) that will be 85 bucks, or just hunting for 65. You must have a current license on file to apply for big game drawing. The drawing is early in the year, usually around the last week of January and runs till early March.

To break up the cost, don't fish, that's 65 bucks and then 10 bucks for each tag you put in for. If you buy your license on 1 March online and submit your drawing info for deer and elk, that will run you 85 bucks this year (2017), if you don't draw, you then get to use the same license from 2017 to submit your 2018 info, same deer and elk you know have to pay 20 bucks... If successful you will then need to pay for the new license to hunt that year.

In short, a 2 year draw process for two tags in Utah as a non resident will run you 105 bucks. Not to shabby. It's all about the timing.

I want to say in Idaho you have to have a license and as a NR is around 160.... cant remember off the top of my head.

 

[Northernlilywhite]

Awesome info on both states. The regs just don't make it all that clear and I am trying to do research but it gets my head spinning with the various rules over 5-10 different western states.

Thanks a ton ElkHunter24 and Speed!

 

[bobbydean]

I get refund checks from New Mexico every June or July.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

New Mexico is expensive to apply upfront, but you are refunded all by the application fee if successful. An issue with NM is 6% of tags to NR and the fact that you can purchase a landowner tag bypassing the draw.

 

[npaden]

I break everything down into refundable costs and nonrefundable costs.

Wyoming Elk is $14 nonrefundable plus the $50 preference point if you want to build points. The random draw odds really aren't that bad if you wanted to just skip the preference point.

Utah is $65 every other year for the license and then $10 for each species you apply for. All nonrefundable. You only buy the tag if you get drawn.

Wyoming Deer and Antelope are $14 nonrefundable fees each plus preference points. I think they are $20?

New Mexico requires the tags to be paid up front but refunds them and the mandatory $65 license if you don't get drawn. Nonrefundable cost is $20 per species you apply for.

Colorado is about the cheapest. $4 nonrefundable if you buy the fishing license.

Nevada is kind of expensive, I think the hunting license is $142 and then it is $16.50 per species except elk is $21.50.

Arizona is also expensive, $160 for the license and $15 for each species you apply for.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I break everything down into refundable costs and nonrefundable costs.
Nevada is kind of expensive, I think the hunting license is $142 and then it is $16.50 per species except elk is $21.50

You can get refund on the license in NV if you don't draw. Also you only pay for the tag if you draw it. Although the non-res cost for a bull elk tag is $1200. Deer are not so bad only $240. Another drawback to NV is that non-res draw odds are very slim but if you do in fact draw almost every unit holds monster bucks and bulls if you are willing to put inthe work.

 

[npaden]

That is correct, but if you get the license refunded you don't get any preference points. Your random draw odds in Nevada are very poor without building points. There is still a chance, though.

If you add up the preference points in Wyoming at $50 for elk, $40 for deer and $30 for antelope you are up to $120 which is pretty close to the price of Nevada's license so I guess it really is pretty close if you are buying preference points.

The difference is that you are generally looking at a 4 or 5 year wait for a middle of the road hunt in Wyoming vs. 10+ years in Nevada.

 

[NoWiser]

The other negative about Nevada, with their squared points system, is that if I started now, my odds of drawing would likely decrease every year for quite some time. If only I hadn't been a broke student when these points systems were implemented!

 

[npaden]

What I see are three general categories of costs

(1) Tag cost (some states ask for it upfront and refund, others ask for it on successful draw)
(2) Application cost (this is generally a low cost but non refundable ($50 for WY elk for example)
(3) Licence Cost - This is the one that I am asking about. It burns me for states to ask for an out of state resident to pay for an annual hunting licence when we aren't even sure to get a tag. I don't mind paying it if I am actually going to get the opportunity to hunt, but just tacking on $100-200 bucks to the process seems a bit unjustified.

The one that burns me the most is that Wyoming REQUIRES me to purchase a $100 preference point for Bighorn Sheep.

Doing the math, there is no way in my lifetime I will ever accumulate enough preference points to draw a Bighorn Sheep tag in Wyoming. Period.

I do have a chance of drawing in my lifetime (although it is very small) in the random draw in Wyoming.

The only license that they REQUIRE you to buy a preference point for is Bighorn Sheep and unless you are very young or started applying a long time ago, it is the the only tag in Wyoming that the preference point is basically worthless.

Oh yeah, it is the most expensive preference point too.

That sucks, but that's the way the game is played.

 

[Northernlilywhite]

I break everything down into refundable costs and nonrefundable costs.

Wyoming Elk is $14 nonrefundable plus the $50 preference point if you want to build points. The random draw odds really aren't that bad if you wanted to just skip the preference point.

Utah is $65 every other year for the license and then $10 for each species you apply for. All nonrefundable. You only buy the tag if you get drawn.

Wyoming Deer and Antelope are $14 nonrefundable fees each plus preference points. I think they are $20?

New Mexico requires the tags to be paid up front but refunds them and the mandatory $65 license if you don't get drawn. Nonrefundable cost is $20 per species you apply for.

Colorado is about the cheapest. $4 nonrefundable if you buy the fishing license.

Nevada is kind of expensive, I think the hunting license is $142 and then it is $16.50 per species except elk is $21.50.

Arizona is also expensive, $160 for the license and $15 for each species you apply for.

Is Utah's license fee refundable?? I didn't think it was from what I have read.

Also anybody got any feedback on the Montana process and fees?

 

[Speeddmn]

Is Utah's license fee refundable?? I didn't think it was from what I have read.

Also anybody got any feedback on the Montana process and fees?

Utah is not, but with timing you get to split the cost of between two years.

 

[Gr8bawana]

The other negative about Nevada, with their squared points system, is that if I started now, my odds of drawing would likely decrease every year for quite some time. If only I hadn't been a broke student when these points systems were implemented!

This is very true. If I was a non-resident I would find it very difficult to apply here in NV knowing that it would take who know how many years to draw a tag. Then again if you don't apply you will never draw a tag.

 

[WapitiBob]

If successful you will then need to pay for the new license to hunt that year.

This is incorrect; no hunting license is needed to hunt big game in Utah.

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[glass eye]

To me, a big part of hunting is the travel to, and exploring new places. Big game hunting has gotten so expensive that I'm hunting waterfowl and small game instead. For the price of a non-res lic & tag, I can book a roundtrip flight across the country and then buy a cheap small game license, and still experience an adventure without breaking the bank. I love hunting big game in Hawaii because the non-res license is cheap and most game doesn't require a tag. For the price of most western states big game, I can buy a flight to NZ and hunt as much as I want for free.
I use to apply in several western states for multiple species every year, but not anymore. AZ is the only one I still apply in, but that will end too once I cash in my bonus points for elk and turkey.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

I think you have to look it at the prospective of opportunity to cost, both now and later rather than just what it cost to apply or is refunded on a tag. Most of the states have a give and take of now and or later with regard to costs kept or retained. They all have something better or worse about each fee structure. Just by virtue of not knowing how long if ever it will be until you draw its impossible to truly account for in advance.

Hi All,

I am hoping some old sage of the draw process can shed some clarity on their lost cost strategy.

Thanks guys

I don't think anyone really has a great handle on preference points and what they mean over the long run as none of the systems have hit maturity in the number of hunters in the draw pool vs tags allocated. In some cases just clearing out the back logged of PP holders without new applicants could take over a decade in some states because demand far outstrips supply. Even with great numeric tools like GoHunt, you are always behind the curve of what its really going to take in points to draw a given tag based on historic data. So far I've spent 3 years not getting tags that were 100% draw with the same number of points the year before. Look at the number of points it takes today and double it if you are just now getting into the game. If that hunt requires within a few years of the max points you will never draw it in your lifetime.

If your goals are to hunt antelope and elk in 3-6 years on limited entry tags that's reasonable. For antelope building points in Wyoming is really the only place that makes sense. They have a lot of good antelope tags to be had with a few points and slightly harder hunts (but not actually hard hunts) available on 2nd choice units most years. Reasonable antelope tags do exist in MT and CO, but largely beyond that they are way to hard to draw in a lot of other states considering how easy Wyoming is.

Elk is a lot harder to say how long it might take to draw a limited entry tag, I've been playing the game for a few years and it seems to be my white wale. Wyoming and Colorado with 5 points start offering very good hunts and beyond that you have long odds states like NM, AZ, NV and UT alongside Opportunity-centric states like MT/ID whose limited entry hunts are nearly impossible to draw as a NR. OTC elk hunts are available in CO, ID and MT every year, but they have historic success rates in the teens and are in my experience pretty chaotic.

My suggestion is to get points in Wyoming and CO for elk while applying every year for NM because they refund nearly all the tag cost and the hunting license. NM is also a pure lottery so new guys do have a chance. My wildcard pick would always be AZ, because its not true preference and you can apply for a lot of species considering inexpensively.

I think there is a really fine line for a nonresident hunter going out west balancing quality opportunity and doing it enough to develop you skills without going bankrupt or never having family vacation time left.

Also remember your first couple of trips you are going to spend 2-3x your tag cost getting geared up to hunt out west coming from the east unless you have someone really taking you under their wing. After the first year or 2 the gear accumulation slows down, but its ugly at first. Ultimately its an expensive process, but you can ease the pain by spread out the costs.

 

[Speeddmn]

This is incorrect; no hunting license is needed to hunt big game in Utah.

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I read that also, I don't believe a DNR officer would stop you during a hunt and not ticket you. I have little faith in their system here.

 

[WapitiBob]

The Utah Codes are right there.