Statement re: Elk Farms by Idaho Fish & Game

[MarvB]

If Idaho was as big as Texas, we'd multiply by 3.2 and get 2.7 million deer. Texas has 4 million whitetail.

Tom don't you think that TX deer density is largely (MOSTLY) in part to the supplemental feeding? I don't think you can compare and base everything on acreage anymore so than you saying that it's not fair to base hunter numbers on population!

Sheeesh, it's like saying that I'm whack for having two dogs on a half-acre when compared to the KENNEL down the street that has 80 dogs on five acres....that's what its DESIGNED to be...just like high fences and zoo pets!

 

[Tom]

Yes, I think its largely do to supplemental feeding and controlled access. People in Texas plant stuff for wildlife, cut stuff out that's not good for wildlife, we have wildlife management tax exemptions for private owners, corn and protein is put out, and they do a lot of population management on low fence and high fence places. The hogs are just prolific, people mostly try to get rid of them on major deer managment places, but other places love them for their meat and for their hunting and there are a lot of those places too.

Marv, are you going to shut the kennel down the street down now that you see its a kennel, as if you didn't know it was a kennel to start with? How smart is that approach? You just limit it, you manage it, don't let it get too big, so the whole neighborhood has barking dogs and stinking dog crap. Unless you don't know how to manage dog kennels, then you just vote them out, shut them down, and have your own dog in your back yard, that's it.

 

[noharleyyet]

...only if the kennels are breeding labradors with red stags...right marv?

 

[MattK]

Tom- just wondering if the increase may also be a function of the length of season in TX vs that of ID. It's difficult to compare ID and TX because of public land vs private ownership. Also, TX caters to people who want high success rates with a variety of game and really don't care as much about the asthetic value or purity of a hunt. It's difficult to compare money when cost is a large factor. Is there a price differential between ID and TX in motel rooms, price of ammunition, etc. This also should be factored.

 

[Washington Hunter]

WTF??? Texas is a different state than Idaho, much bigger, different terrain, different habitat, different animals. Simple as that. You can't compare the two. Other than to say that one is mountainous and mostly public land and the other is nearly flat and almost 100% private land. And, Texas has more people, and more people in surrounding states, thus more non-resident hunters, and I am sure many of which are not hunting deer, and they are certainly not hunting elk. Tom how many people hunt squirrels in Texas? Nobody hunts squirrels in Idaho. Could that be the difference? You guys even have a spring season:

There is, in fact some excellent squirrel hunting to be had in the Pineywoods region. And it can be enjoyed right now. The East Texas spring squirrel season spans the entire month of May, and for hunters who enjoy uncrowded woods, now is indeed the time to pursue these bushytails.

Clayton Wolf, wildlife biologist with the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department in Jasper, says spring squirrel season has a dedicated "cult" following.

 

[MarvB]

Tom, point I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to make is that your analogy was apples and oranges. One area (ID) is basically allowed to determine a deer population through more a natural approach to game mgt....the other (TX) with more of a manufactured approach. How much do you think those ID non-res tags & licenses would cost if they started a statewide supplemental feeding program as the primary method to get their deer densities up?

....and no, there is no kennel down the street...just a failed comparison...

Maybe we should start importing WY prairie dogs into Texas to interbreed and get that squirrel population up, afterall it sounds like there is an ample market for them!! Doesn't really matter if the mutant outcome could even climb a tree as long as the "hunter" success is high enough and people are willing to pay....

 

[Washington Hunter]

Look, there are even welfare squirrel hunters in Texas:

Even if they don't have access to prime squirrel habitat on private land, East Texas squirrel hunters can find ample opportunities on public land. Most of the national forest areas and the wildlife management areas managed by the TPWD in East Texas offer quality spring squirrel hunting.

TPWD officials manage more than 800,000 acres in East Texas, available for squirrel hunting through the Public Hunting Lands Program. For a $40 Annual Public Hunting Permit, which may be purchased wherever hunting licenses are sold, hunters can access these areas during designated seasons.

 

[Tom]

Marv, don't call it my analogy, I responded to the article Ithaca posted comparing Idaho and Texas. Apples and oranges are both fruit, both have vitamin c, both grow in trees, etc. They are easy to compare if you want to think about it.

WH, what's the going rate on squirrel habitat and feed? You think $40 is welfare or what? You still have to buy the liscense too. A thousand pound elk for $0 access and management fee and $35 resident tag is way more welfare than a squirrel for $40 plus liscense, don't you think? You probably pay $0 to hunt a squirrel on federal land there, right?

 

[AZ402]

Marv, don't call it my analogy, I responded to the article Ithaca posted comparing Idaho and Texas. Apples and oranges are both fruit, both have vitamin c, both grow in trees, etc. They are easy to compare if you want to think about it.

WH, what's the going rate on squirrel habitat and feed? You think $40 is welfare or what? You still have to buy the liscense too. A thousand pound elk for $0 access and management fee and $35 resident tag is way more welfare than a squirrel for $40 plus liscense, don't you think? You probably pay $0 to hunt a squirrel on federal land there, right?

Did anyone hear that?.........My head just exploded.

 

[ringer]

Fact might be that some states with trophy elk really have no desire to attract more NR hunters or dollars. It is not viewed as a for profit business in Arizona and that is why we have no private tags.

 

[Tom]

Arizona charges a non-resident for a hunting liscense, (its like over $150 right?) just to apply for a big game tag and you say its not a money thing??? What a ringer there??? Arizona is at the top of the list or near it. Lets go over their budget some, resident, non-resident, federal, etc. for Arizona F&G. Arizona got sued over this most recently of all the states, then they made it worse. You think we're idiots, that we would fall for a dumb ass statement like that?? Are you blind Ringer? What the heck are you thinking to make a statement like that? You mean for residents right? Arizona doesn't care about making money from residents, they want to make it from non-residents, from all the eastern state hunters, etc. Is that what you're thinking?

 

[AZ402]

Nuclear explosion.................

 

[Moosie]

Apples and oranges are both fruit, both have vitamin c, both grow in trees, etc. They are easy to compare if you want to think about it.

AZ402 gets his AZZ handed to him once again by TOM !!!!

 

[AZ402]

AZ402 gets his AZZ handed to him once again by TOM !!!!

LMAO! Maybe I should drink a V-8 before I go after Tom. Or I could take a multi vitamin, oranges are yummy. Apples are good for pie don't you think?

 

[ringer]

Tom-You must have a little issue with not being able to whore out our game like you do in your state. My statement only said we don't view wildlife as a for profit business like you do and we don't manage it to get any more or any less non resident hunters. We manage it to try to satisfy the resident hunters while being fair to the non residents. Texas is famous for privatizing game and selling access which we proudly do not do. Go over the budget and you will see that NR fees do not pay the bulk of G&F budgets. We are in line with costs of other states with quality elk herds. Actually I hope you get drawn this year. I have 7 points so maybe will get lucky as well.

 

[Tom]

I hope you get drawn too, good luck. You're entitled to your opinion. Do you have a link for the budget you mentioned or you read it or what?

 

[ringer]

No and I am not lookin' it up again. Back when the USO mess was going we analyzed it and it was a decent percentage but not carrying the budget. Most was Pittman-Robertson, state lottery, boating fees etc. Not that we don't need NR funds and was not implying that. Just that some states may choose to do what they think is right over what will produce the most money or most animals. If I don't get drawn soon I will switch to supporting elk farms and feeders. If you want to analyze the budget it shoulsd be on the AZ G&F website under the annual report.

 

[MarvB]

Damn Tom

Arizona charges a non-resident for a hunting liscense, (its like over $150 right?) just to apply for a big game tag and you say its not a money thing??? What a ringer there??? Arizona is at the top of the list or near it. Lets go over their budget some, resident, non-resident, federal, etc. for Arizona F&G. Arizona got sued over this most recently of all the states, then they made it worse. You think we're idiots, that we would fall for a dumb ass statement like that?? Are you blind Ringer? What the heck are you thinking to make a statement like that? You mean for residents right? Arizona doesn't care about making money from residents, they want to make it from non-residents, from all the eastern state hunters, etc. Is that what you're thinking?

Were they teaching about punctuation marks in class today or did Ringer just strike a nerve ?

 

[Tom]

They require you buy a $150+ liscense, to APPLY for a tag. They must think applying for the tag is hunting? Or, they just want a lot of non-resident money.

What good it the liscense, since most don't get drawn?

 

[AZ402]

What good it the liscense, since most don't get drawn?

You can hunt Archery deer, general bear, archery turkey, lion and all our small game and varmits with it eh'.