Starbucks Strike

[BearFoot]

I tried to get into union's. Wasn't related or know anyone. Could not get in. Made my own path. Once an expert, in my craft, They tried to recruit me, but I was making better money as an independent. No union rules or boundaries, held me back. Making big money, was invested, into business dreams, which created a bunch of jobs! A lot of money to throw around. Got people here 20+ years.

Robert Kiyosaki's book, "Rich Dad Poor Dad" is a read I like.
Rich dad creates business, opportunities. Poor dad has a union job, stays inside the box.

There is a difference between contributing to success and entitled to success.

 

[BigHornRam]

Due to inflation we now find ourselves in a circular firing squad, particularly in the food service industry. The business are struggling to stay open. The employees are struggling to make ends meet, and the consumer is struggling to afford the product. Something needs to change.

 

[BuzzH]

Been a Steward for several years with one of the largest federal unions.
It's helped keep crap peeps in their job, at the same time helped many more good peeps keep the same.

It's not the crap v good portion of a union, it's the measure of mutual compliance to abide by mutually negotiated agreement, aka Collective Bargaining Agreement.

When management and employee both abide by the agreement, life is pretty darn good.

Problems exist involve management's failure to comply with agreed processes. Typically this occurs when dealing with a piss poor, retired on duty, employee. When management follows the mutually agreed steps, the union has no leg to stand on to uphold the CBA! Not uphold the piss poor employee.

Management w/o unions is not good, IMO.

This is the right answer.

In my experience, it's not the union that saves the turd employees, but rather management not following the CBA. Management absolutely can fire bad employees, and if done by the CBA, there's nothing the union can do to stop it.

Fair to note too that the collective bargaining agreement is negotiated with management. In other words it's as much managements CBA as the unions.

I think a key to success for everyone is to put a lot of thought into the negotiations for the collective bargaining agreement/ contract from the start. I don't negotiate anything that's in the CBA, that's already been decided. Anything else I'll negotiate with management on anything else at the local level.

I believe both unions and management have a responsibility to act professionally and respectfully on any issue that's arise. They should also strive to solve issues at the lowest level first, that simply means having open and honest discussions right away.

There is no doubt that a solid CBA, good communication between the union and management, can make things safer, more productive, and fair for everyone.

In my time as a Union President of my local, I've developed a very good working relationship with management. That relationship solves a lot of issues before a problem develops and formal steps to correct them are very rare.

 

[BuzzH]

Due to inflation we now find ourselves in a circular firing squad, particularly in the food service industry. The business are struggling to stay open. The employees are struggling to make ends meet, and the consumer is struggling to afford the product. Something needs to change.

Wages shouldn't have stagnated for 40 years and we wouldn't be in this circular mess. CEO pay and corporate profits should have stayed reasonable and we wouldn't be in this mess. Employers shouldn't have dumped on their employees for the last 50 years. Corporate tax rates shouldn't have been cut another 14 percent and we wouldn't be in this mess. We shouldn't have allowed huge corporate mergers (Monopoly) and we wouldn't be in this mess. We shouldn't allow out of balance wealth accumulation and we wouldn't be in this mess.

The peasants can only be taken advantage of for so long before they take some back. Greed never ends well.

 

[BigHornRam]

Wages shouldn't have stagnated for 40 years and we wouldn't be in this circular mess. CEO pay and corporate profits should have stayed reasonable and we wouldn't be in this mess. Employers shouldn't have dumped on their employees for the last 50 years. Corporate tax rates shouldn't have been cut another 14 percent and we wouldn't be in this mess. We shouldn't have allowed huge corporate mergers (Monopoly) and we wouldn't be in this mess. We shouldn't allow out of balance wealth accumulation and we wouldn't be in this mess.

The peasants can only be taken advantage of for so long before they take some back. Greed never ends well.

And yet we have real peasants lined up by the millions trying to come to this awful place you have created in your idealistic mind. Carry on.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Corporate tax rates shouldn't have been cut another 14 percent and we wouldn't be in this mess. We shouldn't have allowed huge corporate mergers (Monopoly) and we wouldn't be in this mess. We shouldn't allow out of balance wealth accumulation and we wouldn't be in this mess.

And yet we continue to elect ultra-wealthy congressional and legislative folks to make those decisions "for" us!

 

[JustinsDad]

I have seen unions work really well. I have also seen unions kill an industry and drive companies into the ground and push jobs overseas. Greed can come from either side.

 

[Big Fin]

Since this thread has nothing to do with the purpose of the forum, I hope folks can keep it civil. I've had to close some prior threads on Unions v. Management in the past.

Carry on ........

 

[338win]

Unions are not perfect, but they are about the only real option for employees on a macro scale. Congress and most states won’t pass worker protections. The GINI coefficient lines have went parabolic post NAFTA. Wages have stayed flat for decades while costs have increased. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jpow is getting stacks from industry to kill the labor movement with interest rate. End of the day though I still won’t be buying a $10 coffee.

 

[BuzzH]

I have seen unions work really well. I have also seen unions kill an industry and drive companies into the ground and push jobs overseas. Greed can come from either side.

The decisions to move labor out of country has way more to do with congressional actions (or lack there of) and corporate profits/decisions. Those decisions are made not because companies aren't profitable with American Pay Scale, but because they can make more paying a worker in another country 50 cents an hour.

Every company dies from the neck up...always.

 

[2rocky]

As non-union Management with a facility that has a union, I've seen the good and bad. For the most part when the union gets a CBA the pay rate increase extends to the non union employees as well.

Things i like :
Democracy at the union level. All the employees get to have input on pay increases and where to apply them. One year the pay increase went all to retirement, the next year towards take home pay and health coverage.

The Fact that pay negotiations are "One and Done" You don't have individuals asking for pay raises all throughout the year.

A structured system for dealing with grievances, and performance issues.

A contract where we can have a clear budget for payroll for the next 2 years.

Things I don't like:

Union Dues. I think unions can be just as greedy as any corporation.

Survivor Spouse payout rates. The actuary that figured that must be on a commission.

Retirement vesting. If many of these folks had their money they had paid in, in a S&P 500 index fund, they would have a lot better cash flow in retirement.

The Management vs Union Mindset.


If folks want to complain about CEO pay, I'd love to share an article i just came across.

Union Leaders Earn More than Most CEOs​

By AUSTIN YACK
May 15, 2017 9:06 PM

Last week, AFL-CIO, the largest trade union organization in the U.S., released the results from its annual Executive Paywatch report: CEOs at S&P 500 companies earned on average $13.1 million in 2016, and “this greed of corporate CEOs” has caused a “CEO-to-worker pay ratio of 347 to 1.”
ISAAC SCHORR
“It’s shameful that CEOs can make tens of millions of dollars,” AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka said, “and still destroy the livelihoods of the hard-working people who make their companies profitable.”
But the AFL-CIO report neglected to include the average salary for all CEOs in the U.S. in 2016, which, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, was $194,350. These same union leaders who criticize the salaries of CEOs earned on average $252,370 in 2016 — nearly $60,000 more than their private-sector counterparts.

The Center for Union Facts, the union watchdog that unveiled the average presidential salary from nearly 200 unions, found that some union leaders are earning lucrative salaries north of $700,000.
“Timothy Canoll, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, earned more than $775,000 last year,” wrote Luka Ladan, the Center for Union Facts’s communications director, in a column for the East Bay Times. “International Brotherhood of Boilermakers President Newton Jones came close at $756,973, while Laborers’ International Union President Terence O’Sullivan made nearly $718,000 in total compensation.”

Even AFL-CIO’s president Richard Trumka made nearly $300,000 in 2016, as he championed the narrative that corporations are attempting to “rig the economy in their favor and line their CEOs’ pockets at the expense of the workers who make their businesses run.”


AUSTIN YACK — Austin Yack is a William F. Buckley Fellow in Political Journalism at the National Review Institute and a University of California, Santa Barbara alumnus. @austinyack

 

[FairWeather]

Since this thread has nothing to do with the purpose of the forum, I hope folks can keep it civil. I've had to close some prior threads on Unions v. Management in the past.

Carry on ........

Thank you for that reminder. I wasn’t aware this has been a troublesome topic previously.

 

[Movi]

Bowhunters go to Starbucks. That’s all I need to know about it

#folgers

 

[Rhcuam]

I spent four years in a union. Kansas is a right to work state so it held little to no power. They still collect the dues though. And then the state union used that money to endorse their favorite candidate.

It was a big waste.

 

[BuzzH]

As non-union Management with a facility that has a union, I've seen the good and bad. For the most part when the union gets a CBA the pay rate increase extends to the non union employees as well.

Things i like :
Democracy at the union level. All the employees get to have input on pay increases and where to apply them. One year the pay increase went all to retirement, the next year towards take home pay and health coverage.

The Fact that pay negotiations are "One and Done" You don't have individuals asking for pay raises all throughout the year.

A structured system for dealing with grievances, and performance issues.

A contract where we can have a clear budget for payroll for the next 2 years.

Things I don't like:

Union Dues. I think unions can be just as greedy as any corporation.

Survivor Spouse payout rates. The actuary that figured that must be on a commission.

Retirement vesting. If many of these folks had their money they had paid in, in a S&P 500 index fund, they would have a lot better cash flow in retirement.

The Management vs Union Mindset.


If folks want to complain about CEO pay, I'd love to share an article i just came across.

Union Leaders Earn More than Most CEOs​

By AUSTIN YACK
May 15, 2017 9:06 PM

Last week, AFL-CIO, the largest trade union organization in the U.S., released the results from its annual Executive Paywatch report: CEOs at S&P 500 companies earned on average $13.1 million in 2016, and “this greed of corporate CEOs” has caused a “CEO-to-worker pay ratio of 347 to 1.”
ISAAC SCHORR
“It’s shameful that CEOs can make tens of millions of dollars,” AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka said, “and still destroy the livelihoods of the hard-working people who make their companies profitable.”
But the AFL-CIO report neglected to include the average salary for all CEOs in the U.S. in 2016, which, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, was $194,350. These same union leaders who criticize the salaries of CEOs earned on average $252,370 in 2016 — nearly $60,000 more than their private-sector counterparts.

The Center for Union Facts, the union watchdog that unveiled the average presidential salary from nearly 200 unions, found that some union leaders are earning lucrative salaries north of $700,000.
“Timothy Canoll, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, earned more than $775,000 last year,” wrote Luka Ladan, the Center for Union Facts’s communications director, in a column for the East Bay Times. “International Brotherhood of Boilermakers President Newton Jones came close at $756,973, while Laborers’ International Union President Terence O’Sullivan made nearly $718,000 in total compensation.”

Even AFL-CIO’s president Richard Trumka made nearly $300,000 in 2016, as he championed the narrative that corporations are attempting to “rig the economy in their favor and line their CEOs’ pockets at the expense of the workers who make their businesses run.”


AUSTIN YACK — Austin Yack is a William F. Buckley Fellow in Political Journalism at the National Review Institute and a University of California, Santa Barbara alumnus. @austinyack

Disagree on the retirement, pensions PLUS the ability to contribute to an IRA/401 would be best.

Lets just be honest, there are plenty of employees that say they "can't afford" to save for retirement. They find themselves in a cashflow situation of having to work until they die when retirement savings is an option. Defined Benefits/Pensions don't give the employee an option to participate. Sore, a smart employee will do better, but the average employee...well, probably isn't that will informed about retirement savings.

Just look at the mountains of articles with average retirement savings. Pretty obvious the average American Worker is woefully unprepared to retire. Many will never be able to, but they would if they had a pension.

 

[BuzzH]

Bowhunters go to Starbucks. That’s all I need to know about it

#folgers

I go to starbucks, and don't bowhunt much these days.

#coffeesnob

 

[2rocky]

I go to starbucks, and don't bowhunt much these days.

#coffeesnob

Sausage Egg and cheese is $4.25 . 95% of the time that is all I get.

I do do a lot of VIA via the Jetboil though....

 

[noharleyyet]

I go to starbucks, and don't bowhunt much these days.

#coffeesnob #rockingtheheydudes

 

[SAJ-99]

One advantage of unions is multi-employer DB plans, which are run by unions, are one of the few defined benefit plans that still exist. This is often why corporations hate dealing with unions- because they have to fund the plans. If you are independent, building the retirement fund is on you. Some can do that, some can't.
I can bet Twitter employees wish they had a union.

 

[2rocky]

Disagree on the retirement, pensions PLUS the ability to contribute to an IRA/401 would be best.

Lets just be honest, there are plenty of employees that say they "can't afford" to save for retirement. They find themselves in a cashflow situation of having to work until they die when retirement savings is an option. Defined Benefits/Pensions don't give the employee an option to participate. Sore, a smart employee will do better, but the average employee...well, probably isn't that will informed about retirement savings.

Just look at the mountains of articles with average retirement savings. Pretty obvious the average American Worker is woefully unprepared to retire. Many will never be able to, but they would if they had a pension.

Buzz you are not wrong. I am fortunate my company's non union retirement plan is more generous than any I've seen. At the end of my tenure if I leave, all the money, and responsibility, is mine. I think pension plans are Ponzi schemes. They depend on more people paying in than collecting.

I've never, in my limited experience, encountered someone who I would call truly wealthy because of a pension. Except maybe some firemen, that built side businesses during their career.