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Stafford group fights for off-road vehicle park

When will you be willing to apply for an access permit after you have received an elk tag???? CO, are you willing to apply for an access permit to enter the public lands and roads in CO???? GUNNER, I don't see rafting and ATV riding in the same light (an apples & oranges issue).
 
Originally posted by Ten Bears:
GUNNER, I don't see rafting and ATV riding in the same light (an apples & oranges issue).
You are right. Rafters value the environment and work to protect it for ALL people. Whereas ATV'rs only seek to destroy the environment and to force their noise and damage on to all users in the Resource.

You are definitely right, ATV'rs are MUCH different than Rafters, so we should keep working to ban the aTVS. :cool:
 
EG, I always knew this place was a full bag of mixed "fruits". Your "elitist" attitude will one day lead to your own activities being banned.
 
I guess I am not paranoid that protecting a resource is the same as being banned from it. But I am smart enough to recognize some activities can not be compatible with other uses. Rafting is much more compatible with other uses. ATV riding is not compatible. Guess which one should be removed.

And thanks, I enjoy being an "elitist"....
 
For the most part, the Jetboaters enjoy the rafters, so they would say it is compatible.

I would like to see reductions in the Jetboats, so it appears the Jetboating is not compatible.

Thanks for reminding me, let's ban the jetboats...
 
When will you be willing to apply for an access permit after you have received an elk tag???? CO, are you willing to apply for an access permit to enter the public lands and roads in CO???? GUNNER, I don't see rafting and ATV riding in the same light (an apples & oranges issue).
TB, you're missing the point, and making an incorrect analogy. The elk permit is analagous to an access permit for ATVs. Elk permits cost money and are issued on a limited basis to protect the resource, because demand is greater than the resource can withstand. Rafting permits are issued on a limited basis because demand is greater than the resource can withstand. You agreed with the following comment Buzz made:
...if we dont want those 7 million atvers tearing up the woods, we have to limit and control their use.
Now you're saying that, even though the resource can not withstand the demand put on it by ATV users, you're not willing to agree to a plan that would limit their use to protect that resource. Why am I not surprised?

BTW, limited permits for access are going to be the thing of the future. Some wilderness areas and popular places on National forests already have a permit system in place or are considering it. Better get used to the idea...

Oak
 
Elk permits aren't limited here either. Hunters can't seem to kill enough of them as it is, so I'd say they are not taxing the resource. How about sheep tags in Idaho? Are they limited? Why?

The large majority of the ATV crowd is in denial just like you. That's ok, because you're helping to get yourself restricted or banned. Remember TB, the first step is admitting you have a problem.

Out of that entire post, all you got was "Elk tags are limited", eh?

Oak
 
Just trying to keep things simple for you.


I would say sheep tags are limited because of the limited habitat and population size. Are you saying that without ATV's sheep would be an umlimited hunt in Idaho???? Please draw that correlation for me.... I thought a big problem with wild sheep was the domestic sheep diseases...... now your telling me it's been ATV's all this time.....
 
Ten,

Elk Tags ARE limited where you live. My guess is you have never read the set of regulations the Fish and Game publishes.

Right now, if you read your Regulations, (or maybe you can find somebody in the 4th grade who can read them to you) you will find the number of Non-resident tags is limited for Elk. Additionally, for Residents, the State went to a "Zone" system 10 years ago, to limit the mobility of hunters and limit the impact on Elk. If everybody in the State hunted the region you live, they would soon cap the number of tags in a unit. Each unit has a "do not exceed" number, and when that is approached, the Fish and Game will then put a Zone cap in.
 
Ten, sheep are limited because of limited habitat. Sheep tags are limited because demand outweighs supply. If only two people applied for a sheep tag every year they wouldn't need to place a limit on tags.

I'm saying that the demand for places to ride ATVs is going to outweigh the supply of areas they can be ridden without causing damage, just like the demand for sheep tags outweighs the supply of sheep. I'm sorry if the example was too complicated for you to figure out.

Gunner, don't expect TB to do much reading. He admitted in another thread that he can't read.
http://www.huntandlodge.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=005958

Oak
 
GUNNER, if you knew as much as you claim,you'd know that we once had a limited number of elk tags here. :rolleyes: Allforms of recreation will reach apoint of saturation, but don't sell out those you will want support fro later. :rolleyes:
 
Allforms of recreation will reach apoint of saturation, but don't sell out those you will want support fro later.
Once again, no sense here. C'mon TB, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you can do better. You are admitting that ATVs may be reaching the point of saturation, but by me asking you if you would be willing to limit their use to protect the resource I am selling you out? Please explain, because I guess I'm not smart enough to understand. FWIW, I would agree in a heartbeat to limited elk licenses if it was the best thing for the resource, even if I was only able to hunt every other year(or less). I don't expect to be knocking on the doors of any ATV owners with my hand out.

Oak
 
Oak,

You mean to tell me that you won't turn a blind-eye toward the destrucition, devastation, and illegal acts committed by fat-assed ATV riders, just in case you need support for sound managment of wildlife species in the future? :rolleyes:

Gosh, and to think that I don't turn in the neighborhood crack dealers, because I may need a jump start for my pick-up some morning. ;)
 
Yeah, but taking Ten's great advice to not "sell out those you will want support fro later".... What is one to do????

It is kinda funny here in the trailer park, with guys spending more on custom rims for the Escalades than the lady who just got the new double wide down by the laundry building/pay phone.
 

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