Stafford group fights for off-road vehicle park
- Thread starter Ten Bears
- Start date
JoseCuervo
New member
How about that City Council that decided they didn't want a bunch of Fat-Assed ATV riders as their "golden goose for the town's future". Perhaps Fat-Assed ATV riders aren't the econmic force some would like to think they are.
And I like the fact that a short article like this mentions the fact that ATV riders are frequently breaking the law....
"pressured by residents' complaints over ORV riding, cite riders, including Lalonde, who received a ticket from a state Fish and Wildlife officer last year while sitting on the side of Route 72 with son Joey"
", local riders complain, are often crowded, and so they take to the numerous dirt paths that wend through the Pinelands - illegally. "
Makes you wonder if there has ever been an ATV rider not break the law....?
And I like the fact that a short article like this mentions the fact that ATV riders are frequently breaking the law....
"pressured by residents' complaints over ORV riding, cite riders, including Lalonde, who received a ticket from a state Fish and Wildlife officer last year while sitting on the side of Route 72 with son Joey"
", local riders complain, are often crowded, and so they take to the numerous dirt paths that wend through the Pinelands - illegally. "
Makes you wonder if there has ever been an ATV rider not break the law....?
Ten Bears
New member
", local riders complain, are often crowded, and so they take to the numerous dirt paths that wend through the Pinelands - illegally. "
You ever hear of "civil disobedience"?
You ever hear of "civil disobedience"?
Whiskers
New member
Well guys, I live here where that big discussion is taking place. Its a joke. The two parks that are here aren't used much by riders because of the crowded conditions, and the fact that they have to pay to use the facilitiy. They want to ride thru the pines for free. If STAR were to win the contract and build the facility it would cost the township, jobs and money. They don't want to buy the land, they want the land given to them. They don't want to pay to build the site, they want the county to build it. The site STAR wants to use is only 4 miles from the Chatsworth site, but then again, they have to pay to use the Chatsworth site. Why should my tax dollars go toward an ORV site?
"pressured by residents' complaints over ORV riding, cite riders, including Lalonde, who received a ticket from a state Fish and Wildlife officer last year while sitting on the side of Route 72 with son Joey." Mr. Lalonde neglected to point out that where they were sitting was a State Forest/Wildlife Management Area. On a State Highway Right of Way while on unregistered,uninsured Motor Vehicles, approxiamtley 1 mile from the Chatsworth ORV. Where if he ran out of fuel he could purchase more. I am all for issuing tickets, and confiscation of vehicles ridden illegally on WildLife Management Areas, State, and National Parks. If you trespass on private property those laws should apply.
"pressured by residents' complaints over ORV riding, cite riders, including Lalonde, who received a ticket from a state Fish and Wildlife officer last year while sitting on the side of Route 72 with son Joey." Mr. Lalonde neglected to point out that where they were sitting was a State Forest/Wildlife Management Area. On a State Highway Right of Way while on unregistered,uninsured Motor Vehicles, approxiamtley 1 mile from the Chatsworth ORV. Where if he ran out of fuel he could purchase more. I am all for issuing tickets, and confiscation of vehicles ridden illegally on WildLife Management Areas, State, and National Parks. If you trespass on private property those laws should apply.
Ten Bears
New member
JoseCuervo
New member
Another article, more information about more illegal Fat-Assed ATV riders...
"A total of 62 vehicles have been impounded, and 48 individuals were arrested and jailed this year."
Can't have an article about ATVs without mentioning law breaking....
I still wonder if their has ever been an ATV rider not break the law... Maybe some more education????
"A total of 62 vehicles have been impounded, and 48 individuals were arrested and jailed this year."
Can't have an article about ATVs without mentioning law breaking....
I still wonder if their has ever been an ATV rider not break the law... Maybe some more education????
JoseCuervo
New member
Ten,
I missed this one.... That was funnier than Hell.
I agree with Oak, thanks for the comic relief.And, oh, by the way, I am a big fan of "civil disobedience", my Signature on every one of my posts advocates the same. Now I am pretty sure you can't read, or you would have known that. Perhaps you will study a bit harder tomorrow in your 3rd grade reading class.
JoseCuervo
New member
JoseCuervo
New member
ATVs cause problems in Nebraska....
"August 2003
Tickets Issued At Headworks
Private land owners east (down stream) of the Headworks OHV Park have requested that riders at the Headworks OHV Park stay within the boundaries of the park and NOT ride down stream of the park onto their private property. Additionally, officials of the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission ask that riders stay off of state properties.
Riders who ride more than 1000 feet east of the most eastern jetty just south of the entrance trail will be riding on private property and may be ticketed for trespassing. Jetties are structures constructed of steel beams, cables and trees that are built along the banks of the Loup River. People who ride ATVs and dirtbikes on state land east and west of the Genoa bridge may be ticketed for trespassing. If riders are involved in the destruction of endangered species nesting areas, they could face up to a $10,000 fine, jail time and confiscation of the machine involved.
Our organization recommends that riders obtain written permission from land owners when riding on private property, and locate state property before they ride.
In other news, ATV and dirtbike riders were ticketed for the following at Headworks in mid-July.
A group of minors from Genoa, Grand Island and Newman Grove were arrested for MIP. One person was arrested for procuring alcohol for a minor.
A large group of river riders and campers at Headworks were warned by law enforcement about consumption and possession of alcohol at Headworks and about riding ATVs on state property.
After complaints by private land owners over excessive ATV traffic and trespassing, and with the state's mandate to protect wildlife and endangered species, numerous ATV riders were ticketed by the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission for riding ATVs on state lands and privately owned lands in the Loup River. All of the tickets were issued for "operating an ATV on state land". The state land is located around the highway 39 bridge just south of Genoa and down stream of the highway 39 bridge between Genoa and Monroe. Additionally, there is some state land between the highway 39 bridge and the Headworks OHV Park. Stay out of these areas unless you want to take a chance of being ticketed for operating an ATV on state land. In Nebraska, it is illegal to operate an ATV or dirtbike on state land for recreation and we have heard that the state may bring in more officers to bring the situation under control.
We have had some complaints about LOTS of trash in the parking area, mostly cigarette boxes, cans, Micky D wrapers, etc. This needs to be taken care of. PLEASE dispose of your trash and if you see some laying around, help us out and pick some of it up.
Local law and game enforcement will be on the look out for ATV riders in the river east of Headworks, and south of Genoa to Columbus. On these state and private lands, people will be ticketed even if they only ride in the water, sand bars, or the stream bed east of the Headworks OHV Park.
Alcohol use enforcement at Headworks will also be stepped up.
Operation of an ATV or dirtbike in the river at the Headworks OHV Park is allowed providing your machine does NOT leak oil or gas into the river, is operated in a safe manner, and riders stay within the boundaries of the park. The boundaries of the park are:
Western boundary, the Headgates or dam located on the west end of the park.
Southern boundary, the south river bank of the Loup River.
Eastern boundary, 1000 feet east of the last most eastern jetty in the Loup River located just south of the entrance trail. A jetty is a structure constructed of steel beams, cables and trees that are built along the banks of the Loup River.
Northern boundary, in the main riding area, stay south of the top of the hill south of the canal roads. Along the entrance trails, stay south of all fences signs and roads along the canal. "
"August 2003
Tickets Issued At Headworks
Private land owners east (down stream) of the Headworks OHV Park have requested that riders at the Headworks OHV Park stay within the boundaries of the park and NOT ride down stream of the park onto their private property. Additionally, officials of the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission ask that riders stay off of state properties.
Riders who ride more than 1000 feet east of the most eastern jetty just south of the entrance trail will be riding on private property and may be ticketed for trespassing. Jetties are structures constructed of steel beams, cables and trees that are built along the banks of the Loup River. People who ride ATVs and dirtbikes on state land east and west of the Genoa bridge may be ticketed for trespassing. If riders are involved in the destruction of endangered species nesting areas, they could face up to a $10,000 fine, jail time and confiscation of the machine involved.
Our organization recommends that riders obtain written permission from land owners when riding on private property, and locate state property before they ride.
In other news, ATV and dirtbike riders were ticketed for the following at Headworks in mid-July.
A group of minors from Genoa, Grand Island and Newman Grove were arrested for MIP. One person was arrested for procuring alcohol for a minor.
A large group of river riders and campers at Headworks were warned by law enforcement about consumption and possession of alcohol at Headworks and about riding ATVs on state property.
After complaints by private land owners over excessive ATV traffic and trespassing, and with the state's mandate to protect wildlife and endangered species, numerous ATV riders were ticketed by the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission for riding ATVs on state lands and privately owned lands in the Loup River. All of the tickets were issued for "operating an ATV on state land". The state land is located around the highway 39 bridge just south of Genoa and down stream of the highway 39 bridge between Genoa and Monroe. Additionally, there is some state land between the highway 39 bridge and the Headworks OHV Park. Stay out of these areas unless you want to take a chance of being ticketed for operating an ATV on state land. In Nebraska, it is illegal to operate an ATV or dirtbike on state land for recreation and we have heard that the state may bring in more officers to bring the situation under control.
We have had some complaints about LOTS of trash in the parking area, mostly cigarette boxes, cans, Micky D wrapers, etc. This needs to be taken care of. PLEASE dispose of your trash and if you see some laying around, help us out and pick some of it up.
Local law and game enforcement will be on the look out for ATV riders in the river east of Headworks, and south of Genoa to Columbus. On these state and private lands, people will be ticketed even if they only ride in the water, sand bars, or the stream bed east of the Headworks OHV Park.
Alcohol use enforcement at Headworks will also be stepped up.
Operation of an ATV or dirtbike in the river at the Headworks OHV Park is allowed providing your machine does NOT leak oil or gas into the river, is operated in a safe manner, and riders stay within the boundaries of the park. The boundaries of the park are:
Western boundary, the Headgates or dam located on the west end of the park.
Southern boundary, the south river bank of the Loup River.
Eastern boundary, 1000 feet east of the last most eastern jetty in the Loup River located just south of the entrance trail. A jetty is a structure constructed of steel beams, cables and trees that are built along the banks of the Loup River.
Northern boundary, in the main riding area, stay south of the top of the hill south of the canal roads. Along the entrance trails, stay south of all fences signs and roads along the canal. "
JoseCuervo
New member
ATV's causing problems in Long Island...
"All-Terrain Devastation: Joyriders Rip Up the Pine Barrens
By Christopher Twarowski
Long Island's Central Pine Barrens is being invaded by destructive swarms, but the vermin are not of the six-legged variety. Instead, the Pine Barrens—an undeveloped and uncontaminated wilderness that sits atop and protects much of the Island's drinking water—is being shredded and fragmented by noisy, gas-guzzling all-terrain vehicles.
Earlier this year, new laws in Suffolk County stiffened penalties and boosted fines for illegal, reckless riders of dirt bikes and their four-wheeled brethren. Fines and impound fees now range from a low of $750 to more than $8,000 and permanent confiscation of the vehicle for a third offense—which can even earn the rider up to 16 days in jail. But according to conservationists and law enforcement, the tough new penalties aren't discouraging riders in the least.
"They're tearing the hell out of the place," says Richard Schary, who sits on the Pine Barrens Law Enforcement Council, a group of 19 agencies, including state and local police, forest rangers, the National Guard and the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. "They're destroying it—rapidly."
All-terrain vehicles, or ATVs, are recreational motor vehicles capable of riding on all kinds of surfaces. Riders like Henry Samon, a 37-year-old sales manager at Thomas Motorsports Inc. in Centereach and 10-year ATV user, like to take them off the roads and out in the wild, but are stymied by the lack of open space on Long Island. "There's no trail-riding where you can just go out and ride around and see what's out there," Samon explains.
In fact, it's pretty much illegal to take these out anywhere in Suffolk County. Although two-wheeled motor bikes may be taken on paved public roads (provided the vehicle is properly registered and insured), it is illegal to operate ATVs on public land, and riders need to carry the express written consent of a private property owner in order to ride on private land.
"Unless you are the owner of a large piece of property, legally, you really should have no use for them," says Sergeant Victor Webster, a 23-year veteran of the Suffolk County Park Police, whose 34 members confiscate a few vehicles every week. Webster says they impounded 231 ATVs last year and expect to at least match that this year, having impounded 144 so far. "Basically, anybody riding an ATV is probably subject to at least three or four summonses," Webster says. "Our policy is to impound on the first offense."
And it's expensive to get out of impound. A first conviction brings a fine of $250-$500 (depending upon violations) and an additional fee of $500 to get the ATV back. A second conviction warrants a $750-$1,500 fine with the $500 impound fee. The third strike carries a $5,000 fine, a $3,000 impound fee, possible permanent seizure of the vehicle and/or possible imprisonment of up to 16 days. An ATV can cost anywhere from $3,000 up to $9,000.
VIOLATORS APLENTY
Yet Long Island dealerships sell between 1,000 and 2,500 dirt bikes and "quads" (four-wheeled versions) every year. Riders, according to Webster, range in age from teenagers to parents who ride with their children. "It's a consistent problem, and it seems no matter how many summonses or impounds we do, it just keeps on continuing," Webster says.
Why would anyone still drive on protected land in the face of such heavy penalties and fines? There just aren't many legal places. "There're tracks, there's just no trails," says Samon, the ATV enthusiast. "The reason there's not is because of the insurance premiums, because everybody loves to sue everybody in Long Island."
Apprehending renegade riders can be dangerous, often entailing high-speed chases over tough and secluded terrain. "We've had instances where officers have gotten out of cars to flag people down and people have almost run them over," Webster explains. "They've had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit."
Consequently, Webster says, enforcers have developed an array of techniques, from stings and patrols on their own ATVs, to simply sitting near ATV trailers (some owners tow the vehicles to riding areas) and waiting for the owners to return.
Samon says he has witnessed some of law enforcement's tactics, like posing as ATV riders in distress. "You drive up to them because you're trying to be a Good Samaritan and they zip-tie your brake lever so you can't go anywhere," he complains. "And they write you tickets."
But for cops, such dissembling is necessary to control the violators. "[The damage they do] is major," says Detective John Grauer, of the Suffolk County Police Arson Squad, who particularly worries about the potential for careless riders to spark a fire.
THE DAMAGE DONE
Ray Corwin is the executive director of the Central Pine Barrens Commission, a five-member state commission that includes representatives from offices of the governor, the county executive and from the towns of Brookhaven, Riverhead and Southampton. He has closely studied the damage to the Pine Barrens.
"The problem becomes when ATV riders—those ATV riders who are not going to behave themselves—decide to create their own roads through the woods," Corwin explains. "They'll create their own path, which in turn is used by other people and other people and other people and pretty soon, it's an established, new, unofficial, unwanted road. You end up with a high degree of what we call fragmentation."
Fragmentation, Corwin continues, is a term ecologists use to define the process whereby a large, intact area of forested land becomes carved into smaller pieces by the introduction of roads. Fragmentation can turn a forest into a series of "islands of vegetation," and some bird and animal species—the Barrens hosts a number of unique species—will leave an area that becomes too fragmented.
ATVs also add to the problem of erosion. "There are areas where you can stand in the Pine Barrens and be waist deep or deeper in a rut that was created by vehicle traffic," says Corwin.
And of course, the Pine Barrens are public property, which other members of the public like to enjoy. ATVs—which chase away wildlife, turn walking paths into gullies, and disrupt all hope of a quiet walk in the woods—are at the very least a nuisance to hikers, hunters, campers and cyclists. "They do massive destruction to the property and they are annoying to the general public," Grauer says. Try bird-watching when several ATVs are jumping over logs nearby.
There have been a number of attempts over the years to find an ecologically viable way to incorporate ATV use with public land use. Some have suggested that the ATV community band together and buy a piece of land to roam on. ATV owners argue that they're taxpayers, have a right to the land just as everyone else does, and it is the state who should create a legal riding park.
Each year, until a safe, liability-free plan is devised that can be accepted and supported by both sides, hundreds more ATVs will roll out of the dealerships into Suffolk County, and the dust cloud they kick up will continue to swirl. "
"All-Terrain Devastation: Joyriders Rip Up the Pine Barrens
By Christopher Twarowski
Long Island's Central Pine Barrens is being invaded by destructive swarms, but the vermin are not of the six-legged variety. Instead, the Pine Barrens—an undeveloped and uncontaminated wilderness that sits atop and protects much of the Island's drinking water—is being shredded and fragmented by noisy, gas-guzzling all-terrain vehicles.
Earlier this year, new laws in Suffolk County stiffened penalties and boosted fines for illegal, reckless riders of dirt bikes and their four-wheeled brethren. Fines and impound fees now range from a low of $750 to more than $8,000 and permanent confiscation of the vehicle for a third offense—which can even earn the rider up to 16 days in jail. But according to conservationists and law enforcement, the tough new penalties aren't discouraging riders in the least.
"They're tearing the hell out of the place," says Richard Schary, who sits on the Pine Barrens Law Enforcement Council, a group of 19 agencies, including state and local police, forest rangers, the National Guard and the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. "They're destroying it—rapidly."
All-terrain vehicles, or ATVs, are recreational motor vehicles capable of riding on all kinds of surfaces. Riders like Henry Samon, a 37-year-old sales manager at Thomas Motorsports Inc. in Centereach and 10-year ATV user, like to take them off the roads and out in the wild, but are stymied by the lack of open space on Long Island. "There's no trail-riding where you can just go out and ride around and see what's out there," Samon explains.
In fact, it's pretty much illegal to take these out anywhere in Suffolk County. Although two-wheeled motor bikes may be taken on paved public roads (provided the vehicle is properly registered and insured), it is illegal to operate ATVs on public land, and riders need to carry the express written consent of a private property owner in order to ride on private land.
"Unless you are the owner of a large piece of property, legally, you really should have no use for them," says Sergeant Victor Webster, a 23-year veteran of the Suffolk County Park Police, whose 34 members confiscate a few vehicles every week. Webster says they impounded 231 ATVs last year and expect to at least match that this year, having impounded 144 so far. "Basically, anybody riding an ATV is probably subject to at least three or four summonses," Webster says. "Our policy is to impound on the first offense."
And it's expensive to get out of impound. A first conviction brings a fine of $250-$500 (depending upon violations) and an additional fee of $500 to get the ATV back. A second conviction warrants a $750-$1,500 fine with the $500 impound fee. The third strike carries a $5,000 fine, a $3,000 impound fee, possible permanent seizure of the vehicle and/or possible imprisonment of up to 16 days. An ATV can cost anywhere from $3,000 up to $9,000.
VIOLATORS APLENTY
Yet Long Island dealerships sell between 1,000 and 2,500 dirt bikes and "quads" (four-wheeled versions) every year. Riders, according to Webster, range in age from teenagers to parents who ride with their children. "It's a consistent problem, and it seems no matter how many summonses or impounds we do, it just keeps on continuing," Webster says.
Why would anyone still drive on protected land in the face of such heavy penalties and fines? There just aren't many legal places. "There're tracks, there's just no trails," says Samon, the ATV enthusiast. "The reason there's not is because of the insurance premiums, because everybody loves to sue everybody in Long Island."
Apprehending renegade riders can be dangerous, often entailing high-speed chases over tough and secluded terrain. "We've had instances where officers have gotten out of cars to flag people down and people have almost run them over," Webster explains. "They've had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit."
Consequently, Webster says, enforcers have developed an array of techniques, from stings and patrols on their own ATVs, to simply sitting near ATV trailers (some owners tow the vehicles to riding areas) and waiting for the owners to return.
Samon says he has witnessed some of law enforcement's tactics, like posing as ATV riders in distress. "You drive up to them because you're trying to be a Good Samaritan and they zip-tie your brake lever so you can't go anywhere," he complains. "And they write you tickets."
But for cops, such dissembling is necessary to control the violators. "[The damage they do] is major," says Detective John Grauer, of the Suffolk County Police Arson Squad, who particularly worries about the potential for careless riders to spark a fire.
THE DAMAGE DONE
Ray Corwin is the executive director of the Central Pine Barrens Commission, a five-member state commission that includes representatives from offices of the governor, the county executive and from the towns of Brookhaven, Riverhead and Southampton. He has closely studied the damage to the Pine Barrens.
"The problem becomes when ATV riders—those ATV riders who are not going to behave themselves—decide to create their own roads through the woods," Corwin explains. "They'll create their own path, which in turn is used by other people and other people and other people and pretty soon, it's an established, new, unofficial, unwanted road. You end up with a high degree of what we call fragmentation."
Fragmentation, Corwin continues, is a term ecologists use to define the process whereby a large, intact area of forested land becomes carved into smaller pieces by the introduction of roads. Fragmentation can turn a forest into a series of "islands of vegetation," and some bird and animal species—the Barrens hosts a number of unique species—will leave an area that becomes too fragmented.
ATVs also add to the problem of erosion. "There are areas where you can stand in the Pine Barrens and be waist deep or deeper in a rut that was created by vehicle traffic," says Corwin.
And of course, the Pine Barrens are public property, which other members of the public like to enjoy. ATVs—which chase away wildlife, turn walking paths into gullies, and disrupt all hope of a quiet walk in the woods—are at the very least a nuisance to hikers, hunters, campers and cyclists. "They do massive destruction to the property and they are annoying to the general public," Grauer says. Try bird-watching when several ATVs are jumping over logs nearby.
There have been a number of attempts over the years to find an ecologically viable way to incorporate ATV use with public land use. Some have suggested that the ATV community band together and buy a piece of land to roam on. ATV owners argue that they're taxpayers, have a right to the land just as everyone else does, and it is the state who should create a legal riding park.
Each year, until a safe, liability-free plan is devised that can be accepted and supported by both sides, hundreds more ATVs will roll out of the dealerships into Suffolk County, and the dust cloud they kick up will continue to swirl. "
Ten Bears
New member
What's the matter GRINNER, did you get tired sitting at home alone, with all your freinds? Would you like to start comparing ATV "violation" articles with game poaching articles? I bet I can come up with more articles of game poaching then you can on ATV problems.
Has hunting seen that kinda growth???? How about SUPPORT of hunting as a SPORT???
[ 02-20-2004, 09:25: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]
http://www.off-road.com/atv/press/atva/atvattack.html
Has hunting seen that kinda growth???? How about SUPPORT of hunting as a SPORT???
[ 02-20-2004, 09:25: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]
Ten Bears
New member
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ten bears, thanks for making a relevant point on why further limits on ATV use are needed, with the number of ATV's in use tripling to 7 million, they need to be limited and restricted.
Let me ask you this:
If the number of hunters tripled, do you suppose the various G&F departments would have to put more limits on all hunters? Without a doubt they would, the resource can only take so much pressure, whether it be elk, duck, or where atvers ride their machines.
Thanks for proving that if we dont want those 7 million atvers tearing up the woods, we have to limit and control their use.
Let me ask you this:
If the number of hunters tripled, do you suppose the various G&F departments would have to put more limits on all hunters? Without a doubt they would, the resource can only take so much pressure, whether it be elk, duck, or where atvers ride their machines.
Thanks for proving that if we dont want those 7 million atvers tearing up the woods, we have to limit and control their use.
Ten Bears
New member
Exactly, by designating areas, roads, and trails open for their use. Not by closing down all areas, trails, and roads.
NOT eliminate.
Now you're coming around....
Ten Bears
New member
CO, I think I told BS last week, as I'll tell you now, it aint good to drink that much at lunch.
Ten Bears
New member
Go ahead, toss back a few more, you seem to be on a roll. What is it, payday????
JoseCuervo
New member
Ten,
26,000 floaters just applied for about a 1000 permits on the 4 "controlled" rivers in Idaho. We don't bitch, we recognize that there has to be limits on use in order to protect the resource.
I doubt I will ever hear a fat-assed ATV rider say the same.
26,000 floaters just applied for about a 1000 permits on the 4 "controlled" rivers in Idaho. We don't bitch, we recognize that there has to be limits on use in order to protect the resource.
I doubt I will ever hear a fat-assed ATV rider say the same.
