Lonesome_God_outdoors
Active member
First elk I ever got was with an sst and my 25-06. He died mighty quickly. This is my first year using gmx so I'll let you know how they do
Sst and gmx bullets suck.
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shootbrownelk
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SST's are really good on paper targets. For me, they performed similar to how the early Nosler Ballistic Tips performed on game animals. Like a varmint bullet, explosive.
Gut Shot
Well-known member
I no longer use Hornady for anything but target shooting. I've been in on 3 failures and had other mishaps with their bullets.
Not poor bullet placement, bullet failure. One interlock and two SST's. All on elk.
Then I used some of their handgun bullets in my carry gun. After loading/unloading 3-4 times the bullets were pushed back into the case. That was enough for me. Other companies make bullets that work pretty much all the time. I'll stick to those.
Not poor bullet placement, bullet failure. One interlock and two SST's. All on elk.
Then I used some of their handgun bullets in my carry gun. After loading/unloading 3-4 times the bullets were pushed back into the case. That was enough for me. Other companies make bullets that work pretty much all the time. I'll stick to those.
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Gunner46
Well-known member
This is strictly an arm chair quarterback response, as I've never used a SST, but have read countless threads/ bullet reports concerning them.
I see it as one of two theories on what a hunter wants his bullet of choice to do.
1) Enter, expand rapidly, shed all the bullets energy inside the game animal, and thus create the maximum hyrostatic shock possible.
2) Enter, expand to about 2x the original diameter, hold at least 50% weight and penetrate completely through the game animal, providing two open wounds for rapid blood loss.
I've experienced both, though not always intended....
And, with a few years of 'assistant guide' experience on retrieving clients game.......I personally go with # 2.
I see it as one of two theories on what a hunter wants his bullet of choice to do.
1) Enter, expand rapidly, shed all the bullets energy inside the game animal, and thus create the maximum hyrostatic shock possible.
2) Enter, expand to about 2x the original diameter, hold at least 50% weight and penetrate completely through the game animal, providing two open wounds for rapid blood loss.
I've experienced both, though not always intended....
And, with a few years of 'assistant guide' experience on retrieving clients game.......I personally go with # 2.
My dad an I always had a difference of opinion on this one.
I liked option 1, it was the effect you get shooting a big whitetail buck with Corelokts. Typically all of the energy was delivered inside the animal and he fell over.
My dad preferred option 2, he always wanted an exit wound for blood trailing sake.
Of course back then I had never seen an X-ray of a Corelokt shot deer. Now that I have, option 1 is less appetizing.
Don Fischer
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I don't believe your friends story for one sec! 5 to 6 shots through the lungs and had to wait 15 to 20 min for it to die? BS! I have never used premium bullet's on game in my life, I can find no need for them. I've used mostly Hornady spire point/inter lock bullet's for over 40 yrs and have never had one fail. All animals shot died within about 30 sec. I've also used Speer Hot Core's in a 7 mm Mag and the same results. Those two have never failed me, why change? I have never shot any game with Rem of Win bullet's that I recall and experience with Sierra is pre hunter bullet's and not good experience. Never even carried a Nosler bullet big game hunting. What kills animals is bullet's that get in and destroy things. Some destroy more than needed but if they get there the animal dies, usually quickly! A friend wanted me to load some ELD-X's in his 7mm mag this year and I couldn't get them to shoot and couldn't seat them out the OLL that Hornady claims, probably his rifle. Quit on them and got him some 154gr Inter Locks and the rifle shoot's great now, better than it ever did. But then I had to bed the thing too! Everybody jumps on the premium bullet band wagon and I suspect some that praise them have never shot anything with a cup and core bullet. secret to the cup and core bullet, select the right one for the cartridge your shooting! Get to light a bullet and you greatly increase the odds that the bullet will fail on you, velocity tears it apart! My 25-06 and my 243's all shoot bullet's 3000 fps or better but little known secret is 3000 fps is not required to kill an animal! In my 25-06 with a 117gr Hornady I get 3079 fps measured but it's a heavy for cal bullet and does not come apart. In my 243's I only shoot varmint bullet's and they hit something and explode very nicely, I would not suggest them on big game!
The premium bullet craze is not going to slow down, just get bigger because people always feel there is a better bullet. Maybe, maybe not! Much as I like Hornady I find all the new bullet's they've come out with an embarrassment. What really is the difference between an SST and an ELD-X? For that matter you got two choices of ELD-X bullet's! WOW! I'll keep using Hornady Inter lock as long as they work for me. What they do really well is they are accurate and they hold together, what more could you really want? I also went back to the Speer Hot Core in my 6.5x55 this should upset some guy's, with it I can claim to have the original bonded bullet. Oh yea, but they are not really bonded, they just act like it! They was only one thing that made me choose Hornady over Speer 40 some years ago, Hordnay was more accurate in all my rifles except a 7mm mag. That extra 1/8th inch back then ment a lot but I'm older now and it just doesn't mean as much. Both bullet's retained the same weight shooting into bundled newspaper at 100 yds, 86%! The jacket of the Hornady was loose of the core but did not separate, the jacket of the Hot Core was stuck solidly to the core. Speer Hot Core and Hornady inter locks are about half the price of premium bullet's. For shooting target's to simply see how small a group I can shoot I use only Sierra Match Kings, I never hunt big game with them. They are not designed for that. You use them and they fail, you were told so even by Sierra!
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TheDudeAbides
Well-known member
This lead exposure thing interests me.
The average lead level for US adults 3 micro grams per deciliter (1,000,000 Micrograms per Gram) (1 Deciliter per 10 Liters).
The average person has around 5 liters of blood in the body (0.5 Deciliters).
So, your blood level of lead to be average will have 1.5 ug of lead in it.
High Exposure starts at around 10 ug/dl
The Biological Half Life of Lead is: (The amount of time it takes for half (average) of it to be removed from the body) (It works like: 0.5 (30 days), 0.25 (60 days), 0.125 (90 days))
- 30 days in blood
- 45 days in muscle
- 30 years in bone
It will bio accumulate over a period of time meaning that, you can gain more into your system until the half lives are met to the point where it becomes negligible. (0.0000000number)
This can be problematic over a repeat exposure (Welders, Firing Range Instructors, etc)
Of the CDC reported cases of high blood lead levels on 5% are linked to bullets; most involving gunshot wounds. These levels are extremely high 80 ug/dl.
This is a study for the health effects of lead bullet fragments in Venison 2009 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2669501/)
They took a deer shot with lead and fed it to pigs four received pieces from the deer without lead and four received pieces of the deer with lead.
4 Without lead - 0.63 ug/dl lead level
4 with lead - 2.29 ug/dl lead level
Pigs were fed 1.26kg - 1.54 kg (2.77lb - 3.4lb) of meat over two meals in 24 hours. The total amount of lead in the meat fed to the pig was unknown, but similar packages from other deer median (range 0.2-168 mg) 4.2 mg of lead (Median is the middle number, while mean is the average). This is one of those cases where they use the median rather than the mean, because the median is a higher number. It would also have been nice if you they measured the amount of lead in the meat before feeding the pigs to know how much is absorbed.
A conclusion of the study - in a majority of cases, one or more consumers of a hunter-killed, commercially-processed deer will consume bullet lead.
Another note - Factors that may influence dietary lead exposure from spent lead bullets include the frequency and amount of venison consumption, degree of bullet fragmentation, anatomical path of the bullet, the care with which meat surrounding the bullet wound is removed, and any acidic treatments of the meat that would dissolve lead, i.e., coating the hanging carcass with vinegar or the use of acidic marinades in cooking.
So, there is potential for an exposure to lead from lead hunting bullets. I would advise against eating any gun shot parts of the animal if using lead. There are a lot of factors that will determine whether or not the lead makes it to your fork. If you use lead bullets and are worried, then go to the clinic and get your blood tested for lead.
Don Fischer
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Well I'm scared now. Been eating deer shot with lead bullet's 50+ years and now at 72 it just may kill me, darn! Which one of the pigs died?
Ok. Good luck this fall.
Ole leadfoot died, finally had too much.
Seriously though to counter your point about still being alive, none of my dad's close hunting buddies or himself, made it to 70. Their primary goal over a lifetime was to harvest meat for the table. Probably means nothing, but its true.
cahunter805
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+1! Especially when people use bullets not designed for their desired results.
TheDudeAbides
Well-known member
None of the pigs died in this study.
The study was just to see if lead fragments in Venison increased blood lead levels.
It increased the blood lead levels in the pigs.
If the lead stayed in the blood, then it would go through the half life cycle of blood. (30 or days)
If the lead got stored in the bones, then it would go through the half life cycle in the bones. (30 or so years)
It comes down to how much lead is in the meat that you are consuming, how careful you are at processing meat, and how much your body is getting rid of in the blood in tissues versus the bones.
There is risk.
If you smoke a pack a day and eat bacon sandwiches and live to be 101 years old does not mean that it is a great lifestyle choice.
The risk of those activities is that you will develop lung cancer from smoking or heart issues from the high cholesterol food; but there is no certainty that you will develop either.
It just increases your risks for those diseases.
Eating venison shot with lead bullets increases your risk at having elevated levels of lead in body.
The health risks of having a lot of lead in the body are well documented.
It comes down to what your personal risk level and what is acceptable to you and your family.
PsRpOiGrRiAtM
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Wyo,
The more I read your threads about GMX and SSTs, the more I'm curious. How many of your 12 elk did you shoot with SSTs versus GMXs? Your last complaint about your CENTER-PUNCHED 5x5 with a small hole and some lung hanging out, sounds like typicaly GMX/Monometal performance--more penetration than expansion. SSTs usually produce dramatic expansion, almost too much, along with fragmentation. If you had a small hole going out, then your SST held together better than most.
The more I read your threads about GMX and SSTs, the more I'm curious. How many of your 12 elk did you shoot with SSTs versus GMXs? Your last complaint about your CENTER-PUNCHED 5x5 with a small hole and some lung hanging out, sounds like typicaly GMX/Monometal performance--more penetration than expansion. SSTs usually produce dramatic expansion, almost too much, along with fragmentation. If you had a small hole going out, then your SST held together better than most.
MVRK28
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Barnes TTSX, favorite lead free bullet hands down. Never cared much for the GMX, E-Tips are my #2.
OhHeyThereBen
Active member
I'm honestly not sure that anything having both lungs collapsed could make it very long. I think that's what would probably happen to it even if something didn't expand and just poked a hole through both lungs.
So some people on this thread say they won't use SST bullets because they fragment? Yet so many profess to love Berger VLD bullets that are designed to fragment. What gives?
Is it just the hype about Berger bullets they buy into?
Is it just the hype about Berger bullets they buy into?
Brian in Montana
Well-known member
I was trying to think of a nicer way to say it, but I'm with Don; I think I sense a degree of hyperbole in this story. It's hard to believe an elk taking 5 or 6 of any sort of bullet through the lungs and take a half hour to expire. That said, I've only shot SSTs at targets. I was impressed with their accuracy, but I have always tended away from rapid expanders for hunting. My wife and I have shot a significant pile of deer and elk with Interlock SPs and BTSPs. They hold together and I've never seen them do anything but break bone, expand, and carve a big wound cchannel through the critter. I've gotten better accuracy in my handloads with Accubonds, so I'm going with those, but I still wouldn't hesitate to use a standard Hornady Interlock on just about any big game animal.
Never tried GMX. I've considered it, but from what I've read they seem to require pretty high velocities for them to perform reliably.
belly-deep
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I’m not into either bullet.
I shot only 1 with a gmx. (They we’re out of sst and they shoot the same). I don’t reload and I’m not abulte scientist. To be honest I don’t know if I need more or less expansion. I just know that corelokts killed them quick, took them down quick, and they bled more.
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