Sportsmen against Bush

[Ithaca 37]

Intelligent hunters and fishermen are realizing just how detrimental to hunting and fishing the Dubya administration policies are.

"Ryan Busse, vice president of the Kimber Manufacturing Company, (a high-end rifle-maker located in Kalispell, Montana), traveled to D.C. with Raton's Alan Lackey and told reporters that because of the administration's support for drilling in Montana hunting grounds, ''This year's presidential election will probably be the first time in my life that I will have voted for somebody other than a Republican in a national election.''.............

http://www.mjhinton.com/blogs/000595.htm

"The NRA seems alone among major gun groups in not hearing at least some grumbling from members about administration land policies. Even groups that declined to comment publicly on the administration's policies, such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the Boone and Crockett Club, said energy exploration on prime hunting turf is a major source of debate and worry.

About 450 gun clubs across the United States -- including 49 combat handgun clubs -- have signed a petition objecting to the administration's proposal to remove the Tongass National Forest in southeast Alaska from the protection of a Clinton-era rule that bans new roads in undeveloped parts of the forest. The Tongass contains perhaps the world's premier salmon fisheries and is a favorite site for high-end big-game hunting.

"The Tongass is a gold mine for sportsman," the petition said. "Given the extraordinary values of this region, it was surprising and disappointing, to see the Department of Agriculture proposing to remove the Tongass" from the roadless rule........"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59945-2003Nov3&notFound=true

 

[Nut]

Ithaca, the hunters and quite a few of the rural folk where I do most of my hunting do question the motives of the government and do not like what they see. I was surprised to see how many will not be voting for the current administration this fall.

But on "hunting" message boards there is a 90% majority who will vote for Bush no matter what the heck is done. Too many seem to be sheeple to speak up on what is actually wrong for real hunters.

 

[Muledeer4me]

I wonder how many sportsman that say they are supporting him have REALLY looked at his voting record .
I believe we have to protect wildlife and habitat but the guy vote's for org. that are AGAINST HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!
So do we as sportsman ,go all the way ( Vote based only on how environmental a guy is )and in doing so side with someone that support's org. that are against hunting ?
Or do we as sportsman think about the whole picture ,not forgetting how close Kerry vote's in regards to animal rights .
I'll take a Pres. that doesn't look like such a pansey when it come's to animal rights and protecting us as a nation.
They do seem to go hand and hand.


Animal Rights and Wildlife Issues
(Back to top)


"2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Fund for Animals considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the The Humane Society of the United States considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the American Humane Association considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Animal Protection Institute considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Society for Animal Protective Legislation considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2003 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Doris Day Animal League considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Animal Protection Institute considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Doris Day Animal League considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Society for Animal Protective Legislation considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the Fund for Animals considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the American Humane Association considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2001-2002 Based on the votes, and co-sponsorship of legislation the The Humane Society of the United States considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time.

2000 On the votes that the The Humane Society of the United States considered to be the most important in 2000 , Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2000 On the votes that the Society for Animal Protective Legislation considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time"

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nut, I think the Dems. have their best chance ever to attract Republican hunters and fishermen. I believe the environment will turn into a major issue in this campaign. Anyone who believes we need a healthier environment to enhance wildlife populations would be crazy to vote for Bush.

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD already posted that mindless crap about animal rights a few months ago and we examined the bills Kerry was supporting. Remember the one on protecting dogs from being poisoned by anti-freeze? The fact that she used it again after being so thoroughly discredited last time shows that she thinks we're not smart enough to recall it. In fact, SHE was in favor of some of a bill Kerry supported! (Maybe she's too stupid to remember)

Here's the topic. Read it before you get shook up about bills favored by Doris Day!

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=002541

 

[feclnogn]

"Ryan Busse, vice president of the Kimber Manufacturing Company, (a high-end rifle-maker located in Kalispell, Montana), traveled to D.C. with Raton's Alan Lackey and told reporters that because of the administration's support for drilling in Montana hunting grounds, ''This year's presidential election will probably be the first time in my life that I will have voted for somebody other than a Republican in a national election.''.............

For someone who is involved in the firearms manufacturing business to not support Bush in favor of Kerry is pure suicide. With Kerry you get a trail lawyer for VP who will cast a tie breaker vote in the senate in the advent of tied gun legislation and four or eight years of liberal judges who will more than likely let lawsuits filed against firearms makers by cities like Cleveland proceed. But maybe he is not worried because Kimber propably won't be named in the lawsuits?? If the liberal left backed by Kerry and Edwards get their way you will not have a gun industry.

I'm not really in favor of tearing up public lands looking for gas and oil but you need to be realistic about it as well. We need the energy, but where do we get it?? I don't buy the claim you can drill and not tear up the enviroment that the current admin says is the case. So what do you do??

Help me out here Ithaca, I'm willing to listen to your alternative.

 

[Ithaca 37]

fecl, I think there's a lot of paranoia about the 2nd Amendment getting repealed. It's not something I'm worried about. I actually think the NRA has created a lot of the paranoia themselves for their own reasons. I suspect Busse has thought the whole issue thru fairly well.

There are many alternative sources of energy that could be further developed, and there are ways that are cost effective to cut back on what we already use. The list is endless. I'm in favor of decreasing our dependence on foreign oil as much as possible by developing alternative sources and more efficient uses of energy.

I think any country that can put a man on the moon can figure out how to safely harness wind power, tide power, solar power, hydro power far better than we have so far. I think we're finally on the brink of using more fuel efficient engines. I think it's only been a lack of commitment that's held us back, and I think that lack of commitment comes from Bush and many other politicians who have been bought by the oil industry.

 

[MarlandS]

Originally posted by Ithaca 37:
fecl, I think there's a lot of paranoia about the 2nd Amendment getting repealed. It's not something I'm worried about. I actually think the NRA has created a lot of the paranoia themselves for their own reasons.

So, you've seen Kerry's voting record on guns then? The Second Amendment can be gutted and still stand. Vote Kerry in and you'll see that.

Don't expect too much on the environment either, Clinton gave Haliburton a free run in Yugoslavia ,Kerry will do the same given a chance. Haliburton isn't that big of a player in it for GWB but let's look at Kerry's special interest contributors.. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1174297/posts
or HIS ties with Enron and haliburton
http://news.forum.publicradio.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/28/0834239

 

[feclnogn]

fecl, I think there's a lot of paranoia about the 2nd Amendment getting repealed. It's not something I'm worried about. I actually think the NRA has created a lot of the paranoia themselves for their own reasons.

Actually I'm not so worried about the repeal as I am that activist courts will make legislation a mute point. It seems lately that the courts are running our country and dictating policy. My big worry is under Kerry you will see the lawsuits that have been tossed out regarding cities suing gun makers for medical costs be allowed to proceed at some point down the line. I'm not sure gun manufacturers can afford to loose a suit like the tobacco companies did and still stay in business which is the point of these lawsuits in the first place. Who needs legislation outlawing guns when you can put the company out of business.

 

[danr55]

Well, given the issues presented by Ithica, I guess I'll vote for Sen. Kerry.. That way, I won't have to worry about somewhere to hunt, I'll have lots of evironmentally protected lands to hunt on... as long as I want to hunt with a slingshot...

Ithica, sometimes you narrow view of things just amazes me..

 

[Ithaca 37]

Marland, "or HIS ties with Enron and haliburton"
I read the report about his trust getting in and out of their stocks. Big deal. I hope you're not too concerned about that. I had a couple mutual funds that invested in them, too.

""A majority of America's hunters and anglers, while praising specific Bush administration's wildlife funding initiatives, say the administration's priorities are wrong on major conservation policies," said Larry Schweiger, president of the National Wildlife Federation, a pro-hunting, national conservation organization with an office in Montpelier.

Of most concern to hunters and fishermen are Bush's clean air and clean water policies, which have come under criticism recently. The adminstration has been challenged to reduce mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants that contribute to mercury levels in the atmosphere......"

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/specialnews/outdoor/0718043351.shtml

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's some good info on why the majority of hunters and fishermen are now opposing Bush. Here's what this outdoor writer said,

"And when you're finished digesting the fact that the overwhelming majority of hard-core, male, conservative, Republican hunters and anglers really care more about the environment than the president, I want you to remember this:

I told you so.:

"Bush's policies an outrage to 'real sportsmen'"

"Now, I know some of you will find these results impossible to believe. You've let yourself be hoodwinked by the demagoguery from certain quarters about environmentalists -- that anyone who cares about protecting fish and wildlife habitat and believes that the dwindling wild places left in our country are worth more than a few barrels of oil must be a wild-eyed, whacko, liberal, commie, pinko, Democrat who hates George W. Bush.........."

http://www.nola.com/outdoors/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1090746012107460.xml

 

[BuzzH]

What I cant believe is how well the NRA has sold their paranoia to seemingly educated people...

"Kerry will take away our guns", what a steaming load of BS that is. Wont happen, and if you think it will, you have rocks in your head.

 

[MarlandS]

Buzz, Kerry voted for 51 of 55 gun control bills. He follows lock step with Teddy.

Ithaca, YOU are the one spewing the Haliburton rhetoric, YOU are the one who keeps bringing it up. But when Kerry is shown to have dealings with them it's no big deal? You even made money off them? I see how it is now.

I'm no REAL Hunter because I don't support your boy Kerry?? Keep playing that card.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Mars, I assume you know how a mutual fund works. We have no idea who they're buying into and out of 'til it's over.

Kerry's trust making $20,000 on Halliburton isn't quite in the same league as having a VP who used to be CEO of Halliburton.

I thought I had been making it clear there's no way I'm voting for Kerry.

I think anyone who is concerned about future hunting and fishing opportunities would be disgusted about Bush's record on environmental issues and realize how detrimental they've been to wildlife. All ya gotta do is sort thru all the links we've been providing for info.

[ 08-01-2004, 19:40: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]

 

[Nemont]

Well If we could vote solely upon one issue then the choice would be easy. I would write in Ithaca as his only concern in life is protecting the landscape, which is admirable. However for those of us unable to lazer in on one single issue we have to think through the entire good and bad of each candidate.

Having done that Bush still get my vote.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

I didn't go thru all the gun bills Kerry voted on, but I did notice he voted for the McCain amendment to close the gun show loophole. Here it is:

McCain Amendment. No. 2636; To require criminal background checks on all firearms transactions occurring at events that provide a venue for the sale, offer for sale, transfer, or exchange of firearms, and for other purposes.

Reference: Feinstein Amendment. No. 2636; Bill S. 1805; vote number 2004--025 on March 2, 2004

Voting for that is considered an anti-gun vote?

 

[BuzzH]

Marland,

So Kerry voted for some gun control.

Has the legislation he voted for lead to you losing the 2nd amendment or any of your firearms?

Not sure about IL, but I just checked my firearms today, and shot a handful of them...still right where I left them.

I can also walk into the local wal-mart and walk out the door with a firearm. I can buy dozens a day out of the newspaper. I can get a FFL and buy them sons-a-bitches by the truckload, or I can just have my buddy buy them, he already has a FFL.

Yep, all that legislation has made it real tough on my 2nd rights and my ability to own, buy, or sell firearms...

The NRA is a giant propoganda wagon, they sell fear and threats...and oh, do people buy it. They'd make a fortune in snake oil.

 

[1_pointer]

That way, I won't have to worry about somewhere to hunt, I'll have lots of evironmentally protected lands to hunt on... as long as I want to hunt with a slingshot...

Though I do like hunting with guns, I'd much rather have an abundance of healthy game populations in lots of places, even if I had to hunt them with more primitive weapons.

I agree with Buzz, I've not had too much trouble buying or keeping guns lately. IMO, not all the gun control laws are bad.

 

[MarlandS]

Yeah and it's because most of the gun control laws he voted for were defeated.

I've asked on several forums if anyone could provide evidence of Kerry having a hunting license, some of those forums have rabid Kerry fans, not just people who are against Bush, no one has taken me up on the challenge. I'm sure most know why I ask this, Clinton claimed to be a sportsman, even had photo ops of him duck hunting "with a rifle" never had a hunting license or the Fed stamps.

Kerry's had photo ops shooting trap 17/25 some score for someone who was raised hunting, there are pics of him violating gun safety rules etc. He's no sportsman and no friend of gun owners, he's the same as the governor that got elected here tell sportsmen straight in their ee that he'd never do anything to harm us and then introduce legislation trying to ban any shotgun above 28 ga.