Southern Wyoming Land Swap and Dam Proposal

[BuzzH]

I actually think there's going to be a lot of dams built in our future. For those regions with a Mediterranean climate (no rain all summer) and no glacial storage or extensive aquifers, there will have to be a way to store water for people to drink. Can you reduce Ag in these areas? Sure. But there will come a point when reduction can only go so far, when drought diminishes stream flows down to the point where we're either protecting fish or people, or maybe neither. A lot of people don't think of western OR or WA are dry areas, but they can be. All of the large metropolitan areas of both states rely on large reservoir storage for drinking water.

The key will be improving dam siting and designs to minimize maintenance and environmental impacts.

But none of that means this dam fits that mold.

Agree on the need for drinking water, but I don't believe dams are the answer.

Minimal maintenance and minimal environment impacts don't exist when it comes to damming rivers in my experience.

Like choosing between chopping off your right hand or left hand, neither is a desirable outcome.

I think you also touched on this, but I don't see the population of Baggs WY ever reaching a point where a reservoir is needed for drinking water. Plus, they have High Savery already dammed.

 

[Hammsolo]

I actually think there's going to be a lot of dams built in our future. For those regions with a Mediterranean climate (no rain all summer) and no glacial storage or extensive aquifers, there will have to be a way to store water for people to drink. Can you reduce Ag in these areas? Sure. But there will come a point when reduction can only go so far, when drought diminishes stream flows down to the point where we're either protecting fish or people, or maybe neither. A lot of people don't think of western OR or WA are dry areas, but they can be. All of the large metropolitan areas of both states rely on large reservoir storage for drinking water.

The key will be improving dam siting and designs to minimize maintenance and environmental impacts.

But none of that means this dam fits that mold.

We should be able to build a damn that fits the mold. Our economy is so strong that a person that made 13 billion dollars in one day can go to space in . This billionaire also pays little to no taxes (2018) each year. If he had paid the average US tax rate that day his fair share would have been about $2,912,000,000.

 

[Irrelevant]

Agree on the need for drinking water, but I don't believe dams are the answer.

Minimal maintenance and minimal environment impacts don't exist when it comes to damming rivers in my experience.

Like choosing between chopping off your right hand or left hand, neither is a desirable outcome.

I think you also touched on this, but I don't see the population of Baggs WY ever reaching a point where a reservoir is needed for drinking water. Plus, they have High Savery already dammed.

In river dams are definitely less desirable than off channel, but you have to get the water there somehow. I like the idea of small dams, in areas above natural fish passage barriers. Baggs may not, but it's still probably better than 95% of Arizona (if not 100%) and Phoenix is going away any time soon. But if the intent is simply farming around there, that seems like a silly waste of money.

 

[Hammsolo]

I love when humans think they can control the environment, especially the idea that making changes to one variable won’t effect another, let alone the whole system.

 

[Irrelevant]

Interesting related article. https://www.wyofile.com/wyo-looks-to-store-divert-more-water-as-lake-powell-dries-up/

Sounds like we've got ourselves the makings of a Water War.

 

[Bighollow]

Being a Wyoming resident I never really knew where the Little Snake river empties out. Now I can see why this is a water war issue as the Reservoir being proposed is a tributary of Battle Creek which flows into the Little Snake River which flows down into Colorado and then empties into the Yampa River a tributary of the Colorado. The Little Snake river water is part of the Colorado River Compact. Wyoming only utilizes 565,000 acre feet of the upper states allotment of Lake Powell but is authorized 1.05 Million acre feet of Lake Powell where the water is measured and calculated in the agreement. Wyoming is rushing to get more water projects approved before the Bureau of Reclamation places a moratorium on all users. It seems like just expanding Flaming Gorge or Fontenelle would be a better use of water storage.

 

[shootbrownelk]

This whole idea of this dam is by the ranchers, for the ranchers and nothing but the ranchers. So help me God.

 

[Hammsolo]

This whole idea of this dam is by the ranchers, for the ranchers and nothing but the ranchers. So help me God.

They definitely are the ones to gain the most. I can’t believe the power that ranchers still have a greatly evolved and diversifying economy. I am not anti-rancher. I have rancher friends. This reminds me of public land grazing….

 

[Huntn4bucks]

Its hard to believe that anyone would still be considering dams being any kind of good idea in 2021.

Fisheries problems, maintenance forever, dredging, unhealthy riparian areas, lack of point/bar development, cottonwood galleries down the drain, sediment loading, etc.

Here's a novel idea for those wanting subsidized water, how about we subsidize farmers where it rains to give you some hay? I've always wondered how much sense it makes to subsidize people living in a desert to grow crops there? For that matter, why not raise cattle where you don't need 20-50-100 acres per cow and you know, actually rains enough to grow grass?

We pay landowners to pump precious ground water, build dams, divert water all over hell and gone, to grow hay/alfalfa, etc. crops in places they weren't meant to grow. Then every deer, elk, and pronghorn for 100 miles come to the green fields, necessitating damage hunts, GF agencies paying game damage claims, fencing, etc. etc. etc.

Why not subsidize the farmers in places like Illinois that can grow 3-4 crops of alfalfa where we don't need to dam streams, pump groundwater, etc. Give the ranchers out West the hay for a subsidized rate?

Either way, we're going to pay a subsidy, I say do it in a way that disturbs natural systems the least.

Your thoughts are good the problem is that it makes sense government doesn't like stuff that makes sense

 

[COEngineer]

Latest in the news on this topic: https://wyofile.com/wyo-seeks-6282-acre-land-swap-for-new-colorado-river-basin-dam/?utm_source=WyoFile&utm_campaign=e5e7caf667-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2_25_2022_12_31_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_611470c970-e5e7caf667-446101039&mc_cid=e5e7caf667&mc_eid=84d0d85d4d

 

[Irrelevant]

It will be interesting how our society handles water in the future. We built dams 100 years ago for a number of reasons, flood control, irrigation, power generation, etc. Now we're tearing them down to save fish that may very well be doomed anyway. I could very easily see us rebuilding many them to store water in the future, and also to provide some summer flows to save the fish.

We're helping a watershed evaluate how to get higher and colder summer time flows to help salmon. There's really only one legitimate answer, and that's high elevation reservoirs, or massive snow making operations (not really feasible). But no one wants to hear that answer.

 

[COEngineer]

It will be interesting how our society handles water in the future. We built dams 100 years ago for a number of reasons, flood control, irrigation, power generation, etc. Now we're tearing them down to save fish that may very well be doomed anyway. I could very easily see us rebuilding many them to store water in the future, and also to provide some summer flows to save the fish.

We're helping a watershed evaluate how to get higher and colder summer time flows to help salmon. There's really only one legitimate answer, and that's high elevation reservoirs, or massive snow making operations (not really feasible). But no one wants to hear that answer.

Maybe in some areas. In a lot of areas the answer is to stop watering lawns and golf courses. In this case, stop watering cattle and hay fields in the high desert.

 

[Irrelevant]

Maybe in some areas. In a lot of areas the answer is to stop watering lawns and golf courses. In this case, stop watering cattle and hay fields in the high desert.

For now... but that still means we're farming less, restricting property rights (water curtailment) or buying and drying farms. And even that only goes so far. Ag water use is in the summer, domestic/muni water use is year round. We may be complaining about summer flows now, but winter flows will also be a concern in the future.

 

[El Guapo]

"Many of the water projects in Carbon County are closed to the public and no access for public hunting."

The more recent water projects that I'm thinking of in Carbon County are all open to public access, hunting, and fishing. I can think of historic impoundments surrounded by deeded lands without public access, and stream channel/stream bank improvements along private surface that benefit entire systems, public and private. Arguably, I may be missing some or unaware of others. Which water projects are you thinking of that are closed to the public?

 

[Poke 'Em]

$80M for this seems insane, to provide benefit to approximately 80 irrigators. So an average of $1,000,000 cost per irrigator. Assume a 100 year lifespan of the project, and you're looking at a cost of $10,000/year/irrigator, despite the irrigation value being estimated at half of that. Just give each irrigator $7,000/year, save $240,000/year for Wyoming taxpayers, and don't put a big ugly dam in the middle of a forest.