Social security by the numbers
- Thread starter cgasner1
- Start date
Redmt
Well-known member
Not all cash jobs are tax fraud. As I remember if the amount was under $600.00 it wasn't required to report. When I bought a truck of my own the accountant finally classified it as a hobby because of the business expenses were about the same as the income.
So my friend, don't go pissy unless you understand what you're talking about.
BTW, I was born in this country from parents that were born in this country. Illegals have entered this country ILLEGALLY. I will complain about about them anytime I feel like it.
Most of the gripes about the rich avoiding taxes or not paying enough are the fault of the tax code. They are following the rules, so change the rules.
Need to also change the rules on receiving SS. How ilegals get it is beyond right.
I'd support something like:
- collecting requires USA citizenship, paying in doesnt. Want to get the long term.benefit, become a citizen
- change withholding, so that after the upper limit, still pay, but at a lower rate like 2%, pay on the other end remains capped, the 2% helps to handle growth and admin costs
Need to also change the rules on receiving SS. How ilegals get it is beyond right.
I'd support something like:
- collecting requires USA citizenship, paying in doesnt. Want to get the long term.benefit, become a citizen
- change withholding, so that after the upper limit, still pay, but at a lower rate like 2%, pay on the other end remains capped, the 2% helps to handle growth and admin costs
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Most is an huge understatement.
Bezos moved to FL to avoid paying the WA state cap gains tax. Elon to TX to avoid CA. So they used the talent and infrastructure of the region to build the business, but never paid the taxes that help fund the basic stuff. I'm not a huge fan of taxes on unrealized gains, but when I see stuff like this I consider shifting that view. The rich can do a lot of things to avoid taxes. The super rich can do a lot more. The super super rich buy elections.
To help answer you question on "why". I can only point you to the fact that it is an insurance program, not a saving/retirement account. Compare it to other forms of insurance and it might make more sense. Insurance programs are never structured to make you net positive. Note, if you are it is probably insurance fraud- but not legal advice.
If you have paid in 200k at 38, I think you are doing fine. But if you think it would have make a huge difference in you life up to this point, then SS is probably a benefit to you.
cgasner1
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The unrealized tax thing is an entire different issue. Hate to use musk as a example due to politics but you shouldn’t be able to cry about not paying taxes on unrealized gains because it’s not real money then turn around and use that not money as collateral to buy twitter. Which is it money or not
Wyhunter
Well-known member
I'd happily give up every penny I've put into SS over the last 27 years of work, to not pay another penny into it. I'd rather have my retirement in my own hands.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
They don’t.
WyoCoalMiner
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Agree with all of this. May sound corny but I very much recall being proud when I first started paying taxes that I was contributing to society.
Main reason why I also have no problem voicing my concern with how those taxes are used and distributed by my Government.
I do have some philosophical differences with a few taxes. There are issues with Property taxes and Capital Gains, but for me not big enough issues to get too twisted up.
In regards to SS, as someone that hits the cap on SS tax and has for some time, I would much rather see the cap remain but take me out of SS retirement payments all together. Have no issue paying into this system, even if I never see a dime of personal benefit from it. Just don't think I should have to pay more.
BrentD
Well-known member
Your retirement is always in your own hands. It is right now. You can choose to save and invest or not.
cgasner1
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Think his point was he would rather have that 11k this year to invest as he sees fit
Irrelevant
Well-known member
this was recommended earlier. I just skimmed it, worth the few minutes.
Social Security History
The Official History Website for the U.S. Social Security Administration.
www.ssa.gov
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Again thinking of it as a retirement account rather than insurance. That difference is what drives us down rabbit hole.
If you want to support turning it into a retirement account, that can be discussed. Then the discussion is about the abilities of the average American to manage their retirement funds (they suck) and who bears the risk and when stuff goes bad (hint: starts with a G).
I think it almost has to be discussed in that manner. It’s currently managed like insurance and treated like retirement by the users, eventually that’s not going to play out
They do… SSI
BrentD
Well-known member
No, it starts with a P.
Wyhunter
Well-known member
I might be wrong, but wasn't SS made for a retirement insurance policy? Like @cgasner said, I'd rather have that 11k in an investment portfolio with a 8-12% return. I have multiple retirement accounts along with some military DV compensation. Add that with my wife who has a substantial retirement with her company, I'll be fine. I'd just rather not give my money to the govt for "safe keeping" without much return.
Gulf of America
Well-known member
SSI Spotlight on SSI Benefits for Noncitizens | Supplemental Security Income (SSI) | SSA
An alien may be eligible for SSI benefits if he or she meets the requirements of the laws for noncitizens.
www.ssa.gov
Just read this. Sure sounds like specified classes of legal immigrants (though not full citizens), not the blanket "illegals" being thrown around here.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Not SS. Different pool of money. And there are limitations on that. Funny part is most immigrants with a job are paying SS taxes that they will never receive the benefit of.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Suuuuure it does.
SS was a good idea in the begining. Like everything gov't gets involved in it has been abused. I wish I could opt out I doubt I will ever see a cent form it. I have no problem with taxes to take care of America but so much money is wasted by both sides of the aisle. It is odd to me how people want to pay more in taxes, I know there are people on here that pay a lot more in taxes than I do. But I get mad when people who do not pay hardly anything in are telling me about thier big refund check and I am still having to pay more. It is like being punished for working hard and trying to make something of your self and to give your family a good life.
