Smith River Draw Odds

[Irrelevant]

There's getting to be a lot of places that require drawing to access. The Enchantments here is WA require you to draw a permit to camp (though day hiking is open, for now). There's several places in Cali that require one, King's Canyon, the John Muir, etc. I heard WY was looking at it for the Cirque of Towers and based on the one trip I made through there I would support that.

 

[802flyfish]

Will be interesting to see how many people applied for a permit this year.

 

[MThuntr]

Will be interesting to see how many people applied for a permit this year.

i forgot so there is one less than last year

 

[HSi-ESi]

I really hope to pull it again soon. It's been a few years since my last trip. Kids are prime age for the first trip down.

 

[cedahm]

i forgot so there is one less than last year

Add another 'forgot' to the list. Anyone that drew please post pics/trip report.

 

[HSi-ESi]

I was curious as to when they were doing the drawing, on the State site it indicates the drawing is happening today! Fingers crossed still.

 

[HSi-ESi]

Not successful. Down to the Super Permit chance....

 

[802flyfish]

I went in ‘19 as well. Great time. 12 people in my party didn’t draw a permit.. bummer..

 

[Redside]

Pulled a 5/30 permit! Either 70's a blizzard or both!

 

[cedahm]

'19

Cool trip, amazingly beautiful, great fishing, glad I got the opportunity to do the float, not sure I'll ever apply again.

Curious why you wouldn't apply again?

In our case, it's a long drive from CO that goes past a pile of other good water along the way, so not something I'd do every year, but outside of the distance...?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Curious why you wouldn't apply again?

In our case, it's a long drive from CO that goes past a pile of other good water along the way, so not something I'd do every year, but outside of the distance...?

Couple different reasons; 1 there are a lot of spots on BLM that are as incredible as the most popular designated wilderness. The Smith kinda felt like hiking in the Maroon Bells/Yosemite/Zion or something. Awesome, but also very much managed at the highest capacity possible without it being a total disaster... and with all the trappings that come along with that.

Second reason, with the draw odds what they are I feel like it's kinda like a MSG hunt. I had my turn other people should have their first before I have seconds.

Third, lots of other cool spots to explore.

I think if I did do the smith again it would be outside of the peak season.

 

[HSi-ESi]

I did float once during early June (almost 20 years ago now) - and it was fun.

For quite a few years, my Brother or I pulled a permit in early April because the # of applicants then were always low. Water levels could be tough as anything less than 300 cfs at Camp Baker meant we were dragging consistently until after the Tenderfoot . Snowed on us quite a few times. But there was very little traffic - basically felt like we had it to ourselves.

We'd bring a rifle and our Bear tags along with an empty cooler. Never filled a tag - but it was fun. You have to know where you are at there though, as there is a ton of private.

Now with kids in school - it's tough to free up that week. It'll be fun to do it with them someday.

 

[ovis2]

Count me in as another who forgot this year. But my luck has always been bad in this drawing anyway - although I did get to float it in the prehistoric days when I was a teenager before permits were a thing. I did get in for a couple of Super Permit chances this year though.

 

[LuckyTom]

There are actually a bunch of rivers/ sections of rivers that require them... it's all about preserving the resource for future generations.

Colorado Whitewater - River Trip Permits

I'm probably not the only one out there that would like to know what resource is being preserved but limiting the number of floats?

 

[LuckyTom]

No I have never floated either. I wasn't trying to be rude. Just seemed odd.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I'm probably not the only one out there that would like to know what resource is being preserved but limiting the number of floats?

Don't know where you recreate, Tom, but even the generally perceived sparsely populated Montana outdoor recreation spots like the Smith River corridor are getting hammered by human intrusion, with camping site quarrels, excessive litter, inappropriate dirty human excrement spots, risky places for campfires, and on and on. Problems such as those resulted in a decision to limit numbers floating the river at any given time. Plus the corridor is monitored by river rangers to keep things reasonable.

Another example of overuse is on the Madison River, where limits are being proposed to hold down the conflicts resulting from overcrowding. It's sad but real. On some great fishing and floating waterways where a few recreationists have always had fun, now with the throngs of people crowding the waters and shores ... nobody is having fun. Plus the same human waste, littering, and disrespect for the resource are escalating problems.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

No I have never floated either. I wasn't trying to be rude. Just seemed odd.

Basically a large portion of the river is private on both sides, camping spots are limited when there is public land. Often the bank is a rock wall so only some portions of the public could hold campsites. Some sites are single, some have 2 or three.


Impact is noticeable, you can tell from the aerial where the sites are and where the paths between the camps and the outhouses are.



If you removed the limit and allowed dispersed camping the public land would be absolutely trashed. People do the floats in similar number of days, and float average number of miles each day, so there would be pile ups between long stretches of private. Some of the spots are tiny... it would be a disaster.

As it is the river feels kinda crowded, if you linger too long on a hole some guide inevitably comes and gives you shit... or a landowner...

There is a sign up for camping spots and we mostly got the ones we wanted but even so there was a night when we could absolutely hear the other groups. Totally fine everyone was polite but if one group had been partying till dawn....

Lottery for floats is actually pretty common for popular rivers out west. Yampa, Colorado, and Green all require permits in sections.

 

[LuckyTom]

I see, thank you both. Hopefully the limits have the desired effect.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Don't know where you recreate, Tom, but even the generally perceived sparsely populated Montana outdoor recreation spots like the Smith River corridor are getting hammered by human intrusion, with camping site quarrels, excessive litter, inappropriate dirty human excrement spots, risky places for campfires, and on and on. Problems such as those resulted in a decision to limit numbers floating the river at any given time. Plus the corridor is monitored by river rangers to keep things reasonable.

Another example of overuse is on the Madison River, where limits are being proposed to hold down the conflicts resulting from overcrowding. It's sad but real. On some great fishing and floating waterways where a few recreationists have always had fun, now with the throngs of people crowding the waters and shores ... nobody is having fun. Plus the same human waste, littering, and disrespect for the resource are escalating problems.

What people think fishing the Madison will be like:


Reality

 

[Straight Arrow]

Hopefully the limits have the desired effect.

They have made it much better and thus a highly coveted float permit.

"Don't know where you recreate, Tom, ..." Where do you recreate? What state?