Single Bevel Broadhead

[ThunderNocked]

@Fire_9 I was looking at some of the Bleeder models - several of the companies make them.
Iron Will and Kudu for sure.
Cutthroat also makes a 3 blade but it isn't single bevel - not sure if that is because of any particular reason or not.

 

[Badger5]

I really wanted to go with Cutthroat but wasn't sure.
I want to get something that I can get reliably. There was a local shop that used to push a certain Broadhead (OCD Bloodtherapy) but when they shut down nobody else has heard of them. I want something I can reliably replace. Was considering going to a G5 or something easy to find but really like the idea of a Single Bevel - I'm a knife guy and I like the idea of being able to sharpen and strop my broadheads as part of my build and maintenance.
Cutthroat and then Ironwill were my first two thoughts but then they carry Helix in my local shop. Considering them - Kudu there is not a dealer in the state of Alaska.

I’ve had great luck with cutthroat and grizzlystik, both the products and the companies. Can’t go wrong with either of those companies!

 

[Fire_9]

how heavy? Because I tried that too.

I agree, if I ever decide to pick up a bow again, I'll go back to a montec style fixed 3 blade.

550 grains I think around 250 fps.

 

[Fire_9]

@Fire_9 I was looking at some of the Bleeder models - several of the companies make them.
Iron Will and Kudu for sure.
Cutthroat also makes a 3 blade but it isn't single bevel - not sure if that is because of any particular reason or not.

The three blade cutthroat would be high on my list of heads to try

 

[WIbiggame]

This thread got me reading, I have no intention of switching but was bored today so did some reading on the single bevel heads.

Couple questions for you that shoot them and the rest that are smarter than me.
1) Iron Will says that the single bevels rotate through the cut making a devastating wound channel.
- If that is the case are you losing a lot of energy in those blade spinning through the target? They are only sharp on the leading edge so as the sides hit they are tearing therefore losing energy?

2) The single bevels actually cutting surface is smaller than a 3 or 4 blade head. Does the cutting serface make a difference on damage and blood trails?

3) Lastly I saw IW makes a wide version. In the description they say themselves great flight out to 50yds. I will never shoot past 50, but I do practice out to 90 with my current broadheads and they fly like field tips. So with the company themselves openly on their description stating good flight to 50 does that suggest planing and other tuning issues?

Thanks in advance always like learning about "new to me" things and appreciate all responses.

 

[Irrelevant]

This thread got me reading, I have no intention of switching but was bored today so did some reading on the single bevel heads.

Couple questions for you that shoot them and the rest that are smarter than me.
1) Iron Will says that the single bevels rotate through the cut making a devastating wound channel.
- If that is the case are you losing a lot of energy in those blade spinning through the target? They are only sharp on the leading edge so as the sides hit they are tearing therefore losing energy?

possibly, but because they're also typically a heavier arrow, you're theoretically gaining more through inertia.

2) The single bevels actually cutting service is smaller than a 3 or 4 blade head. Does the cutting service make a difference on damage and blood trails?

no idea.

3) Lastly I saw IW makes a wide version. In the description they say themselves great flight out to 50yds. I will never shoot past 50, but I do practice out to 90 with my current broadheads and they fly like field tips. So with the company themselves openly on their description stating good flight to 50 does that suggest planing and other tuning issues?

I could that they flew wherever the hell they felt like flying out past about 20 yards (that an exaggeration, but some days it felt like that). You just have a giant rotating sail out there in front, you're sorta at the mercy of a lot that you can't control.

Thanks in advance always like learning about "new to me" things and appreciate all responses.

 

[Trial153]

This thread got me reading, I have no intention of switching but was bored today so did some reading on the single bevel heads.

Couple questions for you that shoot them and the rest that are smarter than me.
1) Iron Will says that the single bevels rotate through the cut making a devastating wound channel.
- If that is the case are you losing a lot of energy in those blade spinning through the target? They are only sharp on the leading edge so as the sides hit they are tearing therefore losing energy?

2) The single bevels actually cutting surface is smaller than a 3 or 4 blade head. Does the cutting serface make a difference on damage and blood trails?

3) Lastly I saw IW makes a wide version. In the description they say themselves great flight out to 50yds. I will never shoot past 50, but I do practice out to 90 with my current broadheads and they fly like field tips. So with the company themselves openly on their description stating good flight to 50 does that suggest planing and other tuning issues?

Thanks in advance always like learning about "new to me" things and appreciate all responses.

1) the rotation comes because the bevels are opposite each other so force creates leverage against each other. And yes it cuts. It does not tear. I don’t believe you’re losing any significant amount of energy.

2) if the length of the blade is the exactly the same, there is the same amount of cutting surface whether there is one bevel or two. Having a bevel on each side of the edge does not create any additional cutting surface because both bevels meet at the same place on the same plain.

2) we cannot speak for Bill, but I can give some insight considering I own and use both versions. Bill is the engineer in him and considering how meticulous he is, he’s fully aware, that larger head is significantly less forgiving to errors in form or timing.
It’s pretty much common knowledge if you put a larger broadhead on the front and shoot it out long distances it going to be less forgiving then the same design that has less surface area.
Good on him to not blowing smoke up people ass and say it doesn’t matter.

For my own shooting in game both the wides and regular are within my personal margin of error for a long as shot I would take under ideal conditions. Maybe a better shooter would notice more of a difference but I can’t

 

[WIbiggame]

Good on him to not blowing smoke up people ass and say it doesn’t matter.

I did appreciate that piece of truth for sure! Nice to see a company putting facts and not as you said blowing smoke.

Also thanks for the kind response I know this topic can cause some animosity and I truly know nothing about the single vs double so want to learn. Thanks again

 

[Sheltowee]

The three blade cutthroat would be high on my list of heads to try

Picked some up last year, shot them at precisely zero animals. Hopefully this year!

 

[Trial153]

There is one significant difference between a single and double bevel. All things be equal, a double bevel head will have a stronger edge that is more impact resistant.
This may counter intuitive because it’s thinner, and generally the angle of each bevel is less than a single bevel. However, think of how to opposing bevel on the opposite side of an edge works essentially you have two microscopic saw-blades that come together and the teeth into twine with each other Compared to a single bevel which the teeth are just lined up in a line.
So when you see a butcher taking a steel to a blade alternating sides with each stroke, what you are seeing is him, knocking the teeth on each side back into a line each bevel matches and lines up like a saw blade.

 

[WapitiBob]

Hunting partner has developed a 2 or 4 replaceable blade head that among other benefits mirrors the rotation of the single bevel heads thru media. His blades are not single bevel. Tests with gel showed better penetration than the same configuration slick trick. When the arrow was fletched opposite the blade rotation, the head would not spin for the first few inches, then the blades would take over and the head would rotate per the blade configuration. The S.T. never spun in the gel regardless of helical.

 

[Trial153]

I feel like rotation through soft tissue is really overblown. And has convoluted the main benefit of a single bevel Broadhead, and that is rotation upon impact of a hard surface like bone The wedging and twisting effect of a 30° to 60° single bevel that plan will tend to fracture bone upon impact however I personally have not seen any benefit to a rotational effect in soft tissue. quite frankly, bolt bevel designs are perfectly effective in a broadhead and neither have enough or I should say any any significant negatives in my experience, makes one superior to the other.

 

[WIbiggame]

that is rotation upon impact of a hard surface like bone The wedging and twisting effect of a 30° to 60° single bevel that plan will tend to fracture bone upon impact

Is this rotation and fracturing actually better tho? I found this while digging more into the single/double bevel comparison. It's from IW's website.


If I ever decided to switch from all my reading I would go with IW just because as you mentioned early, they aren't blowing smoke about anything. They say the negatives to the single bevel and double bevel and say ultimately they both work equally well it comes down to personal preference.

 

[Trial153]

Is this rotation and fracturing actually better tho? I found this while digging more into the single/double bevel comparison. It's from IW's website.
View attachment 315515

If I ever decided to switch from all my reading I would go with IW just because as you mentioned early, they aren't blowing smoke about anything. They say the negatives to the single bevel and double bevel and say ultimately they both work equally well it comes down to personal preference.

That a great question.
Let’s take two identical Broadhead shot on the exact same arrow from the exact same bow.
Every single variable is identical in every way except one is a single bevel, and one is a double bevel.
Let’s say the double double penetrated 12 inches with zero rotation through a soft medium. and let’s say the single bevel penetrated 10 inches and had a 45° rotation. They pretty much cut exact same amount of tissue, so what Bill is saying is exactly, correct.
You have to ask yourself is the shopper, stronger edge of a Double be worth more to you than the extra cutting during the rotation of a single bevel?
There is absolutely no free lunch in archery.

 

[ThunderNocked]

There is one significant difference between a single and double bevel. All things be equal, a double bevel head will have a stronger edge that is more impact resistant.
This may counter intuitive because it’s thinner, and generally the angle of each bevel is less than a single bevel. However, think of how to opposing bevel on the opposite side of an edge works essentially you have two microscopic saw-blades that come together and the teeth into twine with each other Compared to a single bevel which the teeth are just lined up in a line.
So when you see a butcher taking a steel to a blade alternating sides with each stroke, what you are seeing is him, knocking the teeth on each side back into a line each bevel matches and lines up like a saw blade.

I would plan on stropping my broadheads the same I would as my knives.
So with that you wouldn't have a rolled edge - if you only sharpen one side you would roll an edge no matter what kind of blade it is - double bevel or single.
I plan to strop them to maintain them same as my convex blades. This might create a slight micro bevel on the flat side but i would plan to have it as close to flat as possible.

 

[Bambistew]

This is all I know about them.

 

[ThunderNocked]

well there is that.

 

[ThunderNocked]

I haven't listened or followed him - I do Wish him nothing but success coming from another Oregonian to someone from the PNW. I support any and all outdoor hunting/fishing/etc from Oregon specifically but Oregon and Washington.
Nosler, Leupold, Benchmade, Phelps, etc.

 

[Raisin Bran]

It really doesn't matter, because there are just as many accounts the other way. But all were elk in situations and with equipment that has killed plenty of elk before.

It really boils down to my archery experience being pretty good, but with a couple of disappointing results, then listening to some podcasts gushing about the wonders of single bevel, making the switch and struggling with them and ultimately having really bad results in the field.

This thread got me reading, I have no intention of switching but was bored today so did some reading on the single bevel heads.

Couple questions for you that shoot them and the rest that are smarter than me.
1) Iron Will says that the single bevels rotate through the cut making a devastating wound channel.
- If that is the case are you losing a lot of energy in those blade spinning through the target? They are only sharp on the leading edge so as the sides hit they are tearing therefore losing energy?

2) The single bevels actually cutting surface is smaller than a 3 or 4 blade head. Does the cutting serface make a difference on damage and blood trails?

3) Lastly I saw IW makes a wide version. In the description they say themselves great flight out to 50yds. I will never shoot past 50, but I do practice out to 90 with my current broadheads and they fly like field tips. So with the company themselves openly on their description stating good flight to 50 does that suggest planing and other tuning issues?

Thanks in advance always like learning about "new to me" things and appreciate all responses.

In regards to #3- Mine shoot tacks out to 50 yards just as they do at 20 yards with no tuning required.

 

[TrumpkinTheDwarf]

Geeze. The single bevel crap sure has been a good marketing fad.

Single bevel is not a magic pill. It is not inherently more or less accurate (surface area, proper spine, torque free bow, and lack of run out are what influence broadhead flight). It will not create "more blood". Blood is a byproduct of vessels being cut, i.e. shot placement, sharpness of blades, and total cutting width.

It might help get an extra inch or two of penetration on a heavy bone hit. It might lose edge integrity when impacting light bones, such as ribs due to the shallower edge angle... it might still get stopped by that scary leg bone everyone swears they cut in half.

There are a lot of variables when it comes to killing animals. You want well tuned arrows with good structural integrity, placed in the right spot. After that, cutting diameter and steel hardness/sharpness come into play.