Side-by-Side Shotguns

[Europe]

Southern Elk

I love bird hunting. Upland and/or waterfowl. Most of the side/side shotguns I would recommend are made in Spain, Germany, Italy, although my favorite side by side was made in the U.S., but is not one I would recommend to you at this stage.

There are many here that know shotguns better than I, but I do not recommend you buy one from any of the on line outlets, simply because you have not handled the ones they have for sale. ( if I understand your posts correctly )

There has to be several gun stores in your state that will have both new and used. You need to handle them until one of them speaks to you.

Since you already have a shotgun for Turkey and waterfowl, I agree with others and would suggest a 20 gauge

Best of luck on finding the right shotgun and the hunts you will take it on--

 

[pre6422hornet]

Man side by sides are one of those things that I would love to get back into if I could.

Ordered a Ruger Gold Label pistol grip version back in 01 or 02 that never showed up.

Drooled over Model 21 Winchesters back in the late 90's out at Jaquays in Ohio.

Then in 2005 my bride to be ( still my wife) surprised me with a HK Fabarms Classic Lion as a wedding present. I love that shotgun and will never sell it. There is nothing like seeing a rising rooster come up and hover under those barrels and fold when you pull the trigger.

 

[BrentD]

In the for what it is worth column, I just got back from a local gun show where there was a CZ double on one of the tables. After looking at over briefly, I can only say that I would not find it acceptable at any price. The inletting and wood to metal fit was horrendous. I did not think much of the hot blue either, but that is more of a personal preference thing. Even the butt plate to wood fit was atrocious. It was moderately used and the price tag was something like 11 or $1200.

There was a French gun with a Helice action. I believe a 16 gauge. It was used, and they were asking $900. It was probably the best gun in the show, but nothing special.

 

[Don Fischer]

Back in the early 70's I hunted lot's of grouse in the mountains behind Lakeside, Mont, I was stationed there. My gun was a Browning Double auto, great gun. Today I have four shotguns I don't use anywhere near as much as I'd like. Mod 37 in 16gs, AyA Matador in 16ga, Two more AyA Matadors in 28ga and 410. Mostly when I can get out I use the 28ga. Grouse hunting I switch off between the 28 and the 410. Seldom use either of my 16's anymore. Those AyA Matadors are, to me, really nice guns! I took the ejectors out of mine s I don't care for fired shells hitting the ground. Age does that to you! Before the AyA's I had a Charles Daley 500 in 12 ga. Was a really nice gun in open country! Little suggestion if you don't care for recoil. hunt with target loads in 7.5! I've loaded for years and used to always load 12ga to target velocities and changed shot size to suit what I was hunting. In time I settled for #6 shot for everything. At 1200fps they were nice to shoot.

Something about the 20ga, I've had a few but when it comes to weight, carrying a 20 instead of a 28 is like carrying a cement block instead of a balloon! Before you decide you might look at a 28ga. Oh, look at a loader too. Their field load are really spendy!

 

[squirrel]

I would think you need to look old, older, or ancient, with the alternative giving sticker shock of heart stopping strength. Few years ago i had a hankering for an up grade and was ready to pull the trigger on a gold label, fortunately I couldn't find one before sanity returned. You may want to look at '70's SKB's and/or Browning BSS. I have a BSS that is just amazing. Only thing I would change would be to have double triggers. If too pricey you may look at 70's Savage/fox. Still better workmanship than some of the guns mentioned above of modern vintage. Some of the older /ancient guns really fit differently than guns of modern design. I have an Ithaca that your cheek needs a stepladder to look down the rib, nothing wrong with it other than you just cannot switch back and forth. One of these days i'm gonna take my Parker Bros for a walk in KS until i take a quail with it, then back in the unused section again, it's damascus so will need special food.

But there is just something special about wandering the fields with a S/S, they float.

 

[Slam]

I'm a huge fan of the SxS; I've had a long love affair and my eye and hands have strayed over the years. However, I always come back to my fave, A Parker VH 20 that started in my paternal grandfathers hands, then my fathers and now mine. I have sampled American (Fox, Ithaca, LC Smith, Fulton), the Spanish and Italian guns...and yes the Turkish. A note on Turkish guns - not that long ago many of the shotguns were put together the way many of the British guns were, ie) different parties made pieces (locks, barrels, stocks, actions, etc) that were then assembled and marketed under a common trade name. Now, much of the Turkish manufacturing is using CNC and turning out a much more uniform and ultimately better product. I would not be afraid of CZ (are they still made by Huglu?), however, I would look very closely at a gun I was interested in. Probably 15 years ago I purchased DeHaan SxS 20, straight stock, 28" barrels that are tubed, double triggers, 5.7 lbs, a sweet shooter and a decent quality piece. DeHaan, a fellow out of the Pacific NW was having Huglu build the shotguns to his specs, bringing them to America, having his gunsmith go over them (point up the checkering, lighten triggers, clean up wood metal fit and selling them at a premium over Huglu and CZ. Bottom line, depending on your taste and budget, you can find a double out there for under $1500 that will make you very happy. Don't shy away from some of the old American classics - just get educated on what to look for. Be sure to look at Charles Daly, I had a newly produced 12 come into my hands recently, it wasn't elegant by any standard, but quality, fit and finish were fine, the triggers weren't 10 lbs and it came to the face cleanly.

A note on SxS's...................they don't present the same sight picture of a single barrel, many of the older ones have more drop than your eye is used to. Therefore, I think it prudent to handle, if you can, and spend time bringing the gun to your shoulder. Finally, I too recommend a 20 over a 12 unless your hunting late season pheasant that flush widely.......get a pointing dog, it will go well with your new double.

Don't you flushing fanatics send hate mail my direction...it just is what it is!

 

[Hem]

I sold a CZ s/s 20 gauge mostly because of the straight stock . Dont have as much trouble with my Ruger Red Label o/u with straight stock.
I have a field grade LC Smith s/s which has been alot of fun....would love to eventually have the same shotgun in a 16 gauge.
So my advise:
I recommend a 20 gauge as a good all around. If you are used to a pistol grip then get a pistol grip. The typical hunter is better off keeping with one style. Buy used. Dont get impatient ...wait for the gun you want at the price you are willing to pay. Haven't been in the market for a long time so cant recommend anything specific.

 

[noharleyyet]

What does that Red Label 20 weigh for sure? Have you ever put it on a scale?

I have read 7 lbs w/ 28" barrel

 

[Hem]

Fyi...I had some difficulties trying to adjust shooting a straight stock. You really have to get down on it. I also feel with my Red Label because the stock is slimmer than a pistol grip there is a shift in weight of the gun with the balance further forward . Nice gun but I find myself usually opting for one of my other more balanced shotguns which seem to swing more naturally.
A well fitted shotgun should naturally aim when shouldered. Shoulder your gun with your eyes closed and then open your eyes.
I'm by no means an expert but this simple test...is an eye opener.

 

[mtmuley]

Shotgun novice here. Why SxS rather than O/U? Hope I don't hijack. mtmuley

 

[rwc101]

Shotgun novice here. Why SxS rather than O/U? Hope I don't hijack. mtmuley

My interest in them lies in the history of the design. If I was buying from purely a performance standpoint it would be an O/U.

 

[TheJason]

Shotgun novice here. Why SxS rather than O/U? Hope I don't hijack. mtmuley

The balance difference between the two is actually pretty surprising. The SxS just have a different and more natural feel in the field, at least for me.

 

[mtmuley]

As a rifle shooter, I am drawn to the O/U platform. Learning here. My shotgun is an 870. mtmuley

 

[BrentD]

There are lots of reasons why the side by vs the OU but almost all of them are pretty subjective. As a lover of classic, vintage guns, O/U's just don't show up on the radar. I converted from an 870 to a side by and the transition was hard. Plus I wasn't a very good shot to start with. Over steering was a problem, slowing the gun down took some conscious effort. It is not just the sight plane (actually that's pretty trivial), but the weight and balance difference.

The Red Label you shot, if it was like my old friend's 12 bore Red Label, was very muzzle heavy compared to a side by side or most O/Us. Much more like a pump gun with a few in the tube. That may be why you shot it well. Once you get on with a side by or just about any gun, it doesn't really matter.

One thing is certain however, you will look better with a side-by. For some of us, we need all the help we can get.

 

[BrentD]

Southern Elk,

I just saw this listing of a very nice Sauer. This is a very good quality gunmaker . Strong, durable, well balanced, and just a solid all around gunmaker. I have never seen this particular gun and I don't know the owner, but it would be excellent for what you want to do. Light enough for quails strong enough for pheasants. Does pretty much everything. And a classy bore to boot.

http://uplandjournal.ipbhost.com/topic/74288-1944-jp-sauer-16-gauge/

 

[TheJason]

Ammo is easy to find. I buy 16 gauge by the case from Roger's Sporting Goods. Fiocchi field loads, 1 1/8 oz. I pay about 11-12 bucks a box.

 

[BrentD]

As a rifle shooter, I am drawn to the O/U platform. Learning here. My shotgun is an 870. mtmuley

Well, to quote a phrase...

Google. mtmuley

 

[Southern Elk]

Southern Elk,

I just saw this listing of a very nice Sauer. This is a very good quality gunmaker . Strong, durable, well balanced, and just a solid all around gunmaker. I have never seen this particular gun and I don't know the owner, but it would be excellent for what you want to do. Light enough for quails strong enough for pheasants. Does pretty much everything. And a classy bore to boot.

http://uplandjournal.ipbhost.com/topic/74288-1944-jp-sauer-16-gauge/

Looks like you have to be a member to see that?

 

[Tradewind]

Shotgun novice here. Why SxS rather than O/U? Hope I don't hijack. mtmuley

SxS are purists, they look down upon the O/U crowd with disdain and mild disgust for not embracing the history and heritage. They usually have fancy (field) pants and vests accompanied by specific flavor hunting dogs. They drink 10 yr old scotch

O/u are the high brow types, They look down upon the repeater shotgun types as being unrefined and poor shots who need to spray and pray something falls out of the sky.
They drive range rovers and Jeep grand Cherokees and share the same pointy hunting dogs w/ the SxS crowd. They drink high end whiskey like gentlemen jack single barrel.

Semi autos, Couple of categories but since none of the new ones are cheap we'll lump them. They fire lots of rounds and usually cross over to water fowl where that third round is necessary. They drive new pickups and generally have professionally trained lab retrievers w/ specific blood lines . They drink whiskey and michelob.

Pump shotguns. Your regular guy, drives the average pickup w/ practical equipment that crosses over to all facets of hunting. Family dog comes along and occasionally points out a pheasant and sometimes will thnk about retrieving a downed bird. Regular beer w/ the occasional splurge for their favorite brand.

 

[TheJason]

LOL. This SxS guy is driving a truck with 301k miles, wears a pair of plants that look like a drunk guy took the electric fillet knife to, did all my own dog training, and doesn’t drink Scotch because that money can go to elk tags.