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Shotgun shop montana

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peterk1234

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Any folks here that could suggest a shop in Montana that knows shotguns? Other than hunting turkey, I have zero experience. I know nothing about proper fit, durability, etc, when it comes to bird guns. And I am extremely interested in bird hunting. Thx Pete
 
Peter, I gotta tell you that my experience has been it's very hard to find gun store hired help who know anything about guns, especially shotguns. There's a wealth of knowledge here, however.

As far as fit, I suppose you're better off buying a shotgun that comes with shims for adjustment. Several manufacturers offer this.

What do you want to use it for? What kind of shotgun? O/U, SxS, auto, pump?
 
OntarioHunter said:
Peter, I gotta tell you that my experience has been it's very hard to find gun store hired help who know anything about guns, especially shotguns. There's a wealth of knowledge here, however.

As far as fit, I suppose you're better off buying a shotgun that comes with shims for adjustment. Several manufacturers offer this.

What do you want to use it for? What kind of shotgun? O/U, SxS, auto, pump?
Click to expand...
I am leaning toward an o/u, but open to suggestions. The price differences from one gun to shorter are dizzying.

The gun would be used for grousse initially. I want to be able to shoot clays, since it seems the most logical way to get a lot of practice. I own a versa max, which purchased about five years ago to be my do it all gun. So far it has only shot turkeys. I suspect it would be good for the field too.
 
peterk1234 said:
I am leaning toward an o/u, but open to suggestions. The price differences from one gun to shorter are dizzying.

The gun would be used for grousse initially. I want to be able to shoot clays, since it seems the most logical way to get a lot of practice. I own a versa max, which purchased about five years ago to be my do it all gun. So far it has only shot turkeys. I suspect it would be good for the field too.
Click to expand...
I personally think O/U is overrated. For clays or uplands two shots is fine but for waterfowl you really need the third shot. Your Versamax has that covered I guess. It's probably a bit bulky for uplands although I use a very heavy Browning A5 with 31" barrel with very good effect. An O/U with 26" or 28" barrels would do you fine for uplands if you want a second gun ... and can afford the price tag.

The best way to check for fit is take the gun to a range patterning board. Put a bull on a large sheet of paper or cardboard box, move back fifteen yards, and shoot at it quickly. All in one motion bring the gun from ready position to shoulder and fire at the bull. DO NOT aim the gun. Don't look at the bead, only the target. That's how moving targets are killed/broken. Look at the gun and you miss. This will give you an idea how the gun fits you, not how you can make yourself fit the gun. You'll never have time for the latter in the field. Most field hunters want a gun that patterns 50/50, that is 50% above the bull (i.e. pattern surrounds the bull). This is a "flat" pattern. Trap shooters prefer a pattern that shoots high: 60/40 or 70/30. They like to see the target blow up. Meeah! I shoot a flat field gun for everything and my trap scores are pretty good. I suggest learning to shoot a field gun at the range. Changing guns all the time can be challenging and "fun" for the collector but crippled birds don't appreciate it. I go to the range to bust targets, not play with fancy toys. Beware the man who shoots only one gun, especially if the man shoots at moving targets! Back to the patterning board. If instinctively shooting at it produces a pattern that's higher than desired, it means you're probably looking up the rib when you shoot. This is a common problem for guys who are tall or have long arms and neck. Shotguns are made for the "average" shooter. Change the LOP (= length of pull = distance from trigger to butt of stock) to move the pattern vertically. To bring the pattern down lengthen the stock. Best way to do that is with a slip-on recoil pad. These have the added advantage of allowing the shooter to shorten the LOP when bundled up in extra layers. Shortening the stock to raise the pattern is rarely needed except for kids and ladies. A quick solution is to remove the recoil pad and replace it with flat rubber plate. Quick but not very desirable unless it's a lighter gauge (20, 28, .410). Otherwise it requires cutting down the stock which affects the value.

I would suggest you stay away from plastic stock for field hunting, especially for uplands with fixed breech shotgun (O/U and pump). They are too light. For this same reason I advise sticking with a longer barrels. 26" is lighter and "quicker" but neither is necessarily your friend in either the field or at the range. Lighter means more recoil and quicker means whippier, i.e. a propensity to be jumpy instead of floating onto the target. Anyone who can't carry a walnut stocked 12 gauge O/U with 28" barrels for a day in the field chasing grouse or pheasants has some health issues that need looking after (note I did not include chukars). It goes without saying you will want choke tubes.

For range practice I STRONGLY recommend that you start with trap. This probably most closely resembles flushed pheasants. Unfortunately, it requires shooting from 16 yard line which is very unlike pheasant hunting. You'll shoot trap high gun which is not what you'll encounter in the field (do NOT walk up on anyone's pointing dog with your gun shouldered!). High gun leads to aiming the shotgun, i.e. looking at the bead. For trap get the gun positioned, look at the house where clay will exit, pull the target, and never let your eyes leave it. Once you've sort of got a handle on the basics of trap, move to the skeet range and shoot low gun (off the shoulder when target is pulled, then mount and fire). This is what you'll encounter in the field and it's what you need to master the range. Shooting low gun allows you to visually acquire the target quicker and provides less opportunity to overthink the shot or attempt to aim the gun. A shorter window of opportunity means you are more inclined to shoot instinctively. Most guys will shoot skeet and clays high gun. Don't pay any attention to them. You want to learn to shoot grouse. They seldom give enough time to mount the gun before taking off. Even if they do, you don't know which direction they'll go. You don't want the gun in the way of finding the target. Also, when the gun is shouldered before the target flies or is thrown, there's a greater likelihood of pulling away from the gun when getting it on target. Acquire, mount, and shoot all in one fluid motion. You can see why shooting low gun well at the range and in the field requires a gun that fits perfectly. No time to make yourself fit the gun. As far as field preparation goes, I think sporting clays is greatly overrated. Get a handle on skeet first. The problem with clays is after you've shot the course once or twice you know how the targets will present and behave, very unlike field hunting. If you can find a range master who will let you shoot trap low gun from eight yards behind the house, that is the ideal practice for upland hunting. The trap machine is oscillating so shooter can't anticipate the target's flight pattern.

Browning, Beretta, and Weatherby are the better brands for O/U but you'll need to get out the checkbook. Not all models come with shims for lateral stock adjustment (moving pattern left or right) but they're not always needed. In fact, I would say they're rarely needed. Adjustable aftermarket recoil pads can serve same function as shims. Browning Synergy in synthetic is probably the most adjustable quality made O/U. They look a little weird so have not been terribly popular with the fancy gun range crowd. For that reason they can sometimes be picked up used at a relatively reasonable price. Weatherby are made by ATA, probably the best of the Turkish makers. If you are a long guy ATA is worth considering. Their O/U is one of the very few shotguns I've found that fits me right off the shelf. Be wary about most of the other Turkish guns. I've seen too many fail at the range and a couple of fancy ones took a dump right out of the box. Mossberg's O/U is I believe made by Hatsan (Turkey) and they are junk! Some guys at the club have had trouble with Beretta support which has been turned over to Stoeger USA.

Sorry, for the length. Trying to cover all the bases. Ask away Iif you have any more questions.
 
Last edited:
peterk1234 said:
I am leaning toward an o/u, but open to suggestions. The price differences from one gun to shorter are dizzying.

The gun would be used for grousse initially. I want to be able to shoot clays, since it seems the most logical way to get a lot of practice. I own a versa max, which purchased about five years ago to be my do it all gun. So far it has only shot turkeys. I suspect it would be good for the field too.
Click to expand...

Depending on your budget, you can go look for an affordable double that fits your criteria. 28" barrels, either fixed chokes of IC and Mod or screw in chokes. Then if you find one that you feel fits ok, you can get it specially shaped at a place like Hill who understands traditional stock fitting.

A lot of the larger, locally owned stores like Capital Sports in Helena can help with fit as well. Super knowledgeable guys and they have decent prices on new doubles like the Franchi or CZ's. I've even been impressed with the knowledge of some of the local Sportsmen's Warehouse gun staff on gun fit so if you ask folks when you're looking, I think you'd be surprised how many can help you.

For a grouse gun, weight is key. Try to keep it under 7 pounds. 20 gauges are perfect for grouse & roosters, and a 3" chamber gets a decent light duck gun as well.
 
are you looking for boogie, functional, or both? Budget?

I sometimes play the "on sale" game. I really like the fit of the CZ teal that I just got. To my surprise when I went to pick it up it came in a nice plastic case with velvet (like) sleeves over everything. They seem to be on sale fairly frequently and I really like the fit and finish for the price. It's no Parker Brothers or Kreighoff but it is functional.

I do like my vintage Charles Daly O/U...made in the Miroku Plant right next to Browning Citoris. They used to be gotten for pennies on the dollar but recent trends are pushing them higher in price.
 
Mthuntr said:
I do like my vintage Charles Daly O/U...made in the Miroku Plant right next to Browning Citoris. They used to be gotten for pennies on the dollar but recent trends are pushing them higher in price.
Click to expand...

it's the same gun. Miroku makes most of the Browning Citoris and they made the BSS's. If you can find a Miroku or Chas Daly branded one, you'll get a deal and a half.
 
shadowtracker said:
Find a club that has an active trap or skeet following and check out where they are purchasing from. Some will have dedicated trap/skeet guns while others will be shooting hunting guns. Should be able to lay your hands on a wide array of guns as well.
Click to expand...
Great advice right here.
 
Ben Lamb said:
it's the same gun. Miroku makes most of the Browning Citoris and they made the BSS's. If you can find a Miroku or Chas Daly branded one, you'll get a deal and a half.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that Citoris have always been made in Japan. Last I knew FN in Belgium was still making some Browning Superposed O/Us but only in their custom shop.
 
Ben Lamb said:
it's the same gun. Miroku makes most of the Browning Citoris and they made the BSS's. If you can find a Miroku or Chas Daly branded one, you'll get a deal and a half.
Click to expand...
Sorry to distract the thread but 1974 Charles Daly Wildlife Commemorative 1 of 500...full over improved modified choke with ejectors and box. Of course it a few marks otherwise it was probably new when I traded a 480 Ruger revolver for it. Definitely an upgrade trade.
20220114_101338.jpg20220114_101347.jpg
 
shadowtracker said:
Find a club that has an active trap or skeet following and check out where they are purchasing from. Some will have dedicated trap/skeet guns while others will be shooting hunting guns. Should be able to lay your hands on a wide array of guns as well.
Click to expand...
This. If you want to find out about shotguns, hang out w/ Shotgun guys. There are a handful of subject matter experts on this site.

Also- if you're hanging out at the club, there will be a bulletin board w/ 3x5 index cards and photos advertising guns that members have for sale. A very good way to buy a quality used shotgun.
 
morley.tyler said:
This. If you want to find out about shotguns, hang out w/ Shotgun guys. There are a handful of subject matter experts on this site.

Also- if you're hanging out at the club, there will be a bulletin board w/ 3x5 index cards and photos advertising guns that members have for sale. A very good way to buy a quality used shotgun.
Click to expand...
How many decent sized trap clubs are there in Montana? Boze Angeles no doubt, probably Missoula, maybe Billings. Where else?
 
OntarioHunter said:
How many decent sized trap clubs are there in Montana? Boze Angeles no doubt, probably Missoula, maybe Billings. Where else?
Click to expand...
Not a bucket load- but Big Sky Clay's in Polson used to be very active.
Missoula has one, Kalispell, Helena, Billings (2x), Bozeman.

Hallowell in Livingston is a classic Shotgun shop


@peterk1234 have you told us your location or budget yet?
 
morley.tyler said:
Not a bucket load- but Big Sky Clay's in Polson used to be very active.
Missoula has one, Kalispell, Helena, Billings (2x), Bozeman.

Hallowell in Livingston is a classic Shotgun shop


@peterk1234 have you told us your location or budget yet?
Click to expand...
I am in Livingston. We recently joined the shooting club here in town. I will have to go to some of their clay shoots and make a fool of myself and hopefully some members take pity on me and show me what I should be looking for :)
 
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