Selling Federal Lands

[Irrelevant]

I'd jump on board with the sale of public land if all proceeds had to be reinvested to acquire new public lands within 2 years. That's effectively how WA operates the sale of its trust lands.

 

[TOGIE]

I'd jump on board with the sale of public land if all proceeds had to be reinvested to acquire new public lands within 2 years. That's effectively how WA operates the sale of its trust lands.

if the sales are only strategic and not broad dumping not a bad idea.

in any event, likely a general net loss due to inflation and the essentially inevitable increase in land costs i'm sure. but better than losing 100% of what you had in a sale.

 

[Chama Grande]

Absent in this discussion is water. There has been more than a few developments proposed around me that have the land available, but no water rights to make them viable projects. Land is less of a limiting factor than some would have you believe.

 

[Irrelevant]

if the sales are only strategic and not broad dumping not a bad idea.

in any event, likely a general net loss due to inflation and the essentially inevitable increase in land costs i'm sure. but better than losing 100% of what you had in a sale.

But you almost always gain more land in the process. Because strategic sales typically have higher development value, and the ones acquired are low value ranch/timber land. that is until the town grows out closer to them and they increase in value, rinse and repeat.

 

[TOGIE]

But you almost always gain more land in the process. Because strategic sales typically have higher development value, and the ones acquired are low value ranch/timber land. that is until the town grows out closer to them and they increase in value, rinse and repeat.

and i'm sure there are many potential avenues that would involve loss of land that was inaccessible anyway resulting in new land that is accessible.

such a law wouldn't have as much point or value in colorado since CPW is basically only in the business of acquisition or lease. sales of land basically only come from the land board side which is mandated to make money for schools. i'm sure it would go against the trustees statutory mandate more often than not to sell land for the schools but at the same time be required to buy more land with the money that was supposed to go to schools - none of it is legally accessible anyway so really moot to begin with.

 

[Big Fin]

Wall Street Journal Editorial Opinion Page this morning.




For those not subscribing, here's the pertinent opening paragraphs.

President-elect Trump has the opportunity to provide our children and grandchildren the same homeownership opportunities as earlier generations. He can do it without the massive subsidies, home-price inflation and market inefficiencies that Kamala Harris’s housing plan would have required. Mr. Trump should consider five steps to make homeownership great again.

First, he should direct his interior secretary to have the Bureau of Land Management auction off land suitable for residential development. Land sales totaling 828 square miles would be enough to build about 4.2 million new homes over 10 years. This constitutes 0.3% of the BLM’s 269,000 square miles in 10 states: Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Wyoming.

These 10 states, along with Alaska, account for virtually all the land the BLM manages. They also suffer from severe housing unaffordability: Their median home price is more than six times median income—in California, more than eight times.
Greater land supply would decrease the cost of newly constructed homes, allowing home-price appreciation to track more closely with income growth. The Southern Nevada Public Lands Management Act of 1998, for instance, made about 106 square miles of BLM land in the Las Vegas Valley available to be auctioned off to private bidders. The sales have since increased housing supply and generated over $4 billion in revenue.

Freeing up federal land is part of the 2024 Republican Party platform, and it would return the BLM to one of its original functions—overseeing the transfer of federal land to state and private ownership. Auctioning off this BLM-managed land would also generate about $105 billion for the Treasury.

 

[Treeshark]

BLM has to have the DOGE boys just a’lickin their chops.

 

[Forkyfinder]

BLM has to have the DOGE boys just a’lickin their chops.

And you, too.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Wall Street Journal Editorial Opinion Page this morning.

View attachment 353687


For those not subscribing, here's the pertinent opening paragraphs.

Obviously this is a desire to reduce fed land dressed up with a plausible but inaccurate reason. Land prices in rural areas are NOT a cause of insufficient housing. It is almost entirely ridiculous zoning over reach, absurd building codes and extreme govt builder fees.

I am not saying zoning done well is bad, or building codes done well are bad or there should be no builder fees to reflect expenses incurred by local govts. I am saying those desirable processes have been weaponized to prevent reasonably priced home building and multi-family options. Just this week a neighboring suburb was in the news for making those new owners wishing to build a home to place upwards of (and even over) $100,000 in escrow for up to (and possibly over) 10 years to ensure plans around tree planting are effective. That is ridiculous. That is why you can't buy a single family home in that suburb for under $7000,000.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Obviously this is a desire to reduce fed land dressed up with a plausible but inaccurate reason. Land prices in rural areas are NOT a cause of insufficient housing. It is almost entirely ridiculous zoning over reach, absurd building codes and extreme govt builder fees.

I am not saying zoning done well is bad, or building codes done well are bad or there should be no builder fees to reflect expenses incurred by local govts. I am saying those desirable processes have been weaponized to prevent reasonably priced home building and multi-family options. Just this week and neighboring suburb was in the news for making those new owners wishing to build a home to place upwards of (and even over) $100,000 in escrow for up to (and possibly over) 10 years to ensure plans around tree planting are effective. That is ridiculous. That is why you can't buy a single family home in that suburb for under $7000,000.

What building code things are you aware of that are over the top? Structurally speaking - the code gets longer and allows for more reductions and less conservative design.

 

[VikingsGuy]

What building code things are you aware of that are over the top? Structurally speaking - the code gets longer and allows for more reductions and less conservative design.

Just remodeled a cabin. Stood 80 yrs with near zero maintenance - is rock solid. Now every thing we touch has to be ripped out and redone because of "code". Hell had to have the electrician back to flip the outlets 180 degrees because while code allows either orientation, this inspector only signs off on "upside down" apparently. My contractor could give you a list of 50+ stupid things he has to do on every job that add zero to quality but add costs, but I am not a builder so I can't give you a list.

Another example. A builder was set to add 350 affordable units in a new development not far from here. Fully met every code, but city would not permit if they did not meet the highest LEEDS standard on every item. Would have taken $250k starter homes add over $75k to each. Builder backed out because there was no market (had to meet certain subsidized costs for buyers) for these starter homes at the new price. So, no new units.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Just remodeled a cabin. Stood 80 yrs with near zero maintenance - is rock solid. Now every thing we touch has to be ripped out and redone because of "code". Hell had to have the electrician back to flip the outlets 180 degrees because while code allows either orientation, this inspector only signs off on "upside down" apparently. My contractor could give you a list of 50+ stupid things he has to do on every job that add zero to quality but add costs, but I am not a builder so I can't give you a list.

You're the kind of guy who ruins shade-tree wrenching for everyone.

Look, if it doesn't arc or cause death, then the inspectors don't need to know. Too many people take a rigid approach to building code. It's anti-american.

Home prices in the West are a function of many things. Supply of land isn't one of them.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You're the kind of guy who ruins shade-tree wrenching for everyone.

Look, if it doesn't arc or cause death, then the inspectors don't need to know. Too many people take a rigid approach to building code. It's anti-american.

Home prices in the West are a function of many things. Supply of land isn't one of them.

I've done plenty of DIY things that would raise eyebrows - but some stuff requires a contractor and contractors here are pretty hen pecked by local govt, so it is essentially do it yourself or do it the 110% beaurcrat way up here - your choice. @BrentD had a recent example on a govt required culvert design for an ankle deep run off that added 5 figures to his new abode. Let's be clear - the system does not care about housing rationality let alone housing affordability.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I've done plenty of DIY things that would raise eyebrows - but some stuff requires a contractor and contractors here are pretty hen pecked by local govt, so it is essentially do it yourself or do it the 110% beaurcrat way up here - your choice. @BrentD had a recent example on a govt required culvert design for an ankle deep run off that added 5 figures to his new abode. Let's be clear - the system does not care about housing rationality let alone housing affordability.

Your first problem is you don't have a guy. You have someone who is too interested in running a legit business.

Get a guy. He'll just get it done and you don't ask questions. You can usually find him at the Buck Snort at 11:30.am on a Tuesday.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Your first problem is you don't have a guy. You have someone who is too interested in running a legit business.

Get a guy. He'll just get it done and you don't ask questions. You can usually find him at the Buck Snort at 11:30.am on a Tuesday.

I live by a code . . . If it's going to be done half-assed, it is going to be done half-assed by me . . .

 

[VikingsGuy]

 

[BrentD]

I've done plenty of DIY things that would raise eyebrows - but some stuff requires a contractor and contractors here are pretty hen pecked by local govt, so it is essentially do it yourself or do it the 110% beaurcrat way up here - your choice. @BrentD had a recent example on a govt required culvert design for an ankle deep run off that added 5 figures to his new abode. Let's be clear - the system does not care about housing rationality let alone housing affordability.

Indeed, that was true. But the new, interesting tidbit you may have ran into with your new constructions is that a kitchen island cannot not have an electrical outlet below the level of the island top. That was okay last year, not so much this year. We shall overcome.

I don't mind bureaucrats, mostly. There is a reason for a lot of this stuff, that may be altogether beneficial, but in individual instances seems quite ridiculous. It is all part of living on this planet with another 8.5 billion people, give or take a few dozen.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I live by a code . . . If it's going to be done half-assed, it is going to be done half-assed by me . . .

All that age and not a drop of wisdom.

 

[VikingsGuy]

All that age and not a drop of wisdom.

But a lot of self awareness - and a patient wife.

 

[Ben Lamb]

But a lot of self awareness - and a patient wife.

I question the former. Don't doubt the latter at all.