That's a good point.
SB209 - Revise term length of conservation easements
- Thread starter BourbonSnowCone
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Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Watching the Gallatin area for many decades, it seemed there were places where a subdivision would be highly unlikely. Guess what?! ... now there is a subdivision there ... even in a place difficult for the county to service, but still demanding services.
It's not a far fetched notion to think that Broadus or even Biddle could be the next booming Belgrade or Three Forks with hills covered with some commuter homes and some secondary vacation homes. John Dutton persuaded the whole world to love Montana ... and a remote place to sit on the porch and have a beer with Beth!
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Definitely not off the table. We absolutely have wind farms on top of split minerals all over the place in ND. Also proposals for solar and battery storage facilities on same. With directional drilling, it’s not an issue.
Also starting to see construction of these 500,000 sq ft AI data centers. Lots of demand for development in the “fly-over” places.
Forkyfinder
Well-known member
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Gonna see more them with their own PV/BESS systems - id bet.
Just another thing that needs to find a home beyond public land.
SixPoint
Well-known member
Anyone who can't make the meeting tomorrow but would like to testify on Zoom will need to get signed up before 6AM tomorrow morning. The early start and the poor roads aren't' going to help get folks there in person unfortunately.
antlerradar
Well-known member
I know of one in middle of no where Eastern Montana. Not exactly attracting the Yellowstone crowd.Watching the Gallatin area for many decades, it seemed there were places where a subdivision would be highly unlikely. Guess what?! ... now there is a subdivision there ... even in a place difficult for the county to service, but still demanding services.
It's not a far fetched notion to think that Broadus or even Biddle could be the next booming Belgrade or Three Forks with hills covered with some commuter homes and some secondary vacation homes. John Dutton persuaded the whole world to love Montana ... and a remote place to sit on the porch and have a beer with Beth!
antlerradar
Well-known member
Likely save a lot of money on cooling when you put one of those in ND
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Curious to see if/when interest will spill over to the open spaces of MT.
I only mentioned them because rumor has it one has ended up in a tangle already with a CE in ND. But the energy demands are astronomical. I’ve seen estimates for a single proposed crypto mining facility that is projected to consume 14 TIMES the energy of the entire city of Williston. That’s a single facility. And AI centers will dwarf that.
So I predict some very large scale energy and infrastructure coming to the region. It would be nice to have some mechanism in place to keep our last best special places undeveloped, because this is never going away. Even with perpetual CEs, the landscape is going to change dramatically in the next few decades. But I also think the demand is going to lead to further gutting of easement programs, unfortunately.
A little bit on data centers and Montana, for those curious.
Montana 2050: Data Centers
Over the last 100 years, technological advancements have continuously challenged the status quo, fundamentally shifting how we live. While these changes have undoubtedly provided benefits to our everyday lives, Montanans have all too often been left behind as other states prosper from these...
frontierinstitute.org
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Nameless Range
Well-known member
Curious to see if/when interest will spill over to the open spaces of MT.
I only mentioned them because rumor has it one has ended up in a tangle already with a CE in ND. But the energy demands are astronomical. I’ve seen estimates for a single proposed crypto mining facility that is projected to consume 14 TIMES the energy of the entire city of Williston. That’s a single facility. And AI centers will dwarf that.
So I predict some very large scale energy and infrastructure coming to the region. It would be nice to have some mechanism in place to keep our last best special places undeveloped, because this is never going away. Even with perpetual CEs, the landscape is going to change dramatically in the next few decades. But I also think the demand is going to lead to further gutting of easement programs, unfortunately.
A little bit on data centers and Montana, for those curious.
Montana 2050: Data Centers
Over the last 100 years, technological advancements have continuously challenged the status quo, fundamentally shifting how we live. While these changes have undoubtedly provided benefits to our everyday lives, Montanans have all too often been left behind as other states prosper from these...
I’ve noticed the Frontier Institute and Kendall Cotton really pushing this kind of industry for Montana. For the reasons antlerradar mentioned, they sure seem to think it’s an opportunity for economic growth here.
I think it’s easy to assume places that are empty will always be so, but I think you’re right that we shouldn’t be so sure. Everywhere was empty once, and some big economic driver -things far more powerful than pop culture like Yellowstone- comes along, and the empty isn’t anymore. Usually it’s associated with minerals/oil and a newer technology to get to them or a new demand for them. It cuts the other way too. Where I live you can drive 20 minutes back into the hills and walk among half a dozen old wooden structures dissolving into the ground, and it’s hard to believe that 100 years ago there was 1000’s of people living in a town - with bars, schools, hotels, post offices - now gone extinct. It’s not a counterpoint, but an observation that things can change fast.
Gregory had hundreds of people and all of the aforementioned institutions. Today a population of zero.
Wickes had over 1500 folks. Now a couple dozen.
When I look at the conservation easements on the landscape today in places like the Madison Valley or elsewhere, or even look at the wildlife management areas that the state purchased with sportsman‘s dollars over half a century ago, I so admire the foresight. When a lot of those things were put in a place, Montana was emptier, economically poorer, and there were way more places to get out and hunt and fish and enjoy. And yet those folks had a prescience most are thankful for today. I think folks in the future would feel the same way about similar efforts in the now - when it’s so much more obvious they’ll be appreciated by the “womb of time.”
WanderWoman
Well-known member
I think dang near anything is possible when looking towards a perpetual future. One of the big arguments I hear against CEs is that “we don’t know what the conditions/lands/ranching economy/etc” will be. And that’s also a great argument for them.
I’d never have thought they’d put a Weaver subdivision out in the middle of 410, that’s now like a mini Wisconsin, replete with vacation cabins, food plots, and box blinds across the middle of an important travel corridor for elk and on the fringes of core Sage grouse habitat. Or a subdivision south of Crooked Creek reservoir along the Musselshell way out on the backside of beyond.
I loved SB442 but was worried about the implications of improving more of those gumbo roads that lead to private parcels within larger chunks of the CMR and BLM out there, that are currently ripe for more of this, especially with one less tool in the box should this BS pass.
mtnkid85
Well-known member
Sponsor tabled it! A BIG thank you to all who put in the background work on this one. And Thank you Rep. Tezak for hearing your constituents concerns.
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WanderWoman
Well-known member
I am loving the showing of people, including landowners, who took the time to show up and testify in opposition to this bill. I hope the legislators there today and other decision-makers across Helena take note and realize/recognize the value of CEs and use the testimony today beyond this bill hearing.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
YES! Most importantly it was likely enlightening to the bill sponsor and others to be made aware that the PERPETUITY of the easement is what allows the critical tax benefit.
Thanks to @Forkyfinder for driving an extra three hours to be my copilot on these terrible roads and giving his testimony.
It was interesting to see the look of some proponents when they looked at the sign up list of opponents. It reads like a “Who’s Who” of Montana legacy landowners.
For whatever reason we have to go through this process every ten years or so. Once again, UPOM, Kerry White and his shell organization (CBU), were on the wrong side of property rights.
These ranchers have a lot more important stuff as a working landowner than to take a day to drive to Helena on shitty roads, just to humor some legislators who are taking marching orders from their leadership who is beholden to the dark money groups who sponsored cocktail hour at their Party convention last summer. Every Montanan should be pissed about this type of clownsmanship by the fringe operators.
Credit to the sponsor who saw the writing on the wall. As a freshman, he will be asked to carry some “party principle” legislation and be the canon fodder. I got the sense he wasn’t carrying this bill based on his own personal convictions.
I hope he will reach out to those of us who have the hands on experience of how these CEs are actually implemented. Many of us would take a day to meet. Given enough notice, I could fill a large meeting room with conservative landowners who would give a completely different perspective than what he might be hearing elsewhere.
It was interesting to see the look of some proponents when they looked at the sign up list of opponents. It reads like a “Who’s Who” of Montana legacy landowners.
For whatever reason we have to go through this process every ten years or so. Once again, UPOM, Kerry White and his shell organization (CBU), were on the wrong side of property rights.
These ranchers have a lot more important stuff as a working landowner than to take a day to drive to Helena on shitty roads, just to humor some legislators who are taking marching orders from their leadership who is beholden to the dark money groups who sponsored cocktail hour at their Party convention last summer. Every Montanan should be pissed about this type of clownsmanship by the fringe operators.
Credit to the sponsor who saw the writing on the wall. As a freshman, he will be asked to carry some “party principle” legislation and be the canon fodder. I got the sense he wasn’t carrying this bill based on his own personal convictions.
I hope he will reach out to those of us who have the hands on experience of how these CEs are actually implemented. Many of us would take a day to meet. Given enough notice, I could fill a large meeting room with conservative landowners who would give a completely different perspective than what he might be hearing elsewhere.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
'Doubt if UPOM or CBU Citizens for Balanced Abuse would show up as they typically are averse to listening to true and accurate information.
SixPoint
Well-known member
Thanks to all who provided testimony and especially to Kendall for pulling some last minute moves to get this thing squashed. Let's hope this is the end of it for a while. I even felt a little sympathetic for Tony having to sit there and take the beating he did. A lot of us testifying were from his district and I'm sure he was feeling pretty stupid.
Great news! Just watched the bill’s testimony and was pleasantly surprised by the overwhelming level of opposition from across the spectrum.
I really can’t believe the this issue is still part of the party’s platform when seemingly every multi-generation stockgrower in the state seems to be against such legislation.
I really can’t believe the this issue is still part of the party’s platform when seemingly every multi-generation stockgrower in the state seems to be against such legislation.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Yes, 'just wish it could have been live-streamed to the ears of each of the State Land Board members!
