SB 354 to limit public access up today on Senate floor

[mtnkid85]

Ohhh, I get it now. Thank you.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It can be a confusing process. Lots of ins & outs & messed up procedural roadblocks in the way.

This is why it is critical to always know the rules of this game. They change each session. Sometimes in a big way, sometimes just slight, imperceptible ones. Any legislature is like 3 dimensional chess. You have to be thinking 5-10 moves ahead, and understand how each level can help or hinder you.

Example: We had a bad anti-wildlife bill killed at least 3 different times in 2015 (I think). It kept coming back to life as the sponsor cajoled, bribed & threatened other legislators. We discovered that the bill missed the deadline for returning to house of origin with amendments, so we had a minority member object to reading it across the Dias. This would have killed the bill for the 4th time, but one member who we had counted as a yes (to the objection) voted the wrong way, and the Senate was able to allow a suspension of the rules and bring the bill back. When we asked the senator why she voted that way, her response was that she felt bad for the sponsor.

I had to drink an extra 4 portions of bourbon that day.

 

[OntarioHunter]

... When we asked the senator why she voted that way, her response was that she felt bad for the sponsor.

I had to drink an extra 4 portions of bourbon that day.

A pity vote. Brother! That's democracy in inaction. Almost as stupid as straight party voting.

 

[Eric Albus]

Perhaps the public should voice keep the fu(%ing cattle off of public lands. Seperate from private all together. No tax money from the public to the good old boys. Perhaps blm forest service fwp should manage the public for the public. Forget the private. Keep it. But pass laws to benifit tax payers and not millionaires who get welfare

YES!!! It’s those vile cattlemen running beef on BLM and FS pushing for this bill. Get out the pitchforks and torches.

Good grief, this kind of post I would’ve thought....well I should’ve expected it I guess.

 

[Eric Albus]

Perhaps the public should voice keep the fu(%ing cattle off of public lands. Seperate from private all together. No tax money from the public to the good old boys. Perhaps blm forest service fwp should manage the public for the public. Forget the private. Keep it. But pass laws to benifit tax payers and not millionaires who get welfare

YES!!! It’s those vile cattlemen running beef on BLM and FS pushing for this bill. Get out the pitchforks and torches.

Good grief, this kind of post I would’ve thought....well I should’ve expected it I guess

A pity vote. Brother! That's democracy in inaction. Almost as stupid as straight party voting.

liberals tend to do everything based on emotion/feelings/ideas. This is why it’s impossible to argue with them

 

[TheJason]

liberals tend to do everything based on emotion/feelings/ideas. This is why it’s impossible to argue with them

This statement is as dumb as it would be for me to say every outfitter breaks the law.

 

[Hem]

This statement is as dumb as it would be for me to say every outfitter breaks the law.

Me sniffs the true identity.

 

[Gerald Martin]

liberals tend to do everything based on emotion/feelings/ideas. This is why it’s impossible to argue with them

This is true. It’s also proof that the Republican Party of MT has been overtaken by hardcore liberals who can’t look past their biases, individual ideologies, and “I want the world to run my way”emotions to pass legislation that fixes problems instead of just benefiting their donors.

“Conservative ” is not an adjective that the sponsors of several of these bills can claim as their political identity.

 

[Walkalot]

Eric albus you are the one that has stated several times in multiple threads that the public is always trying to ram things down landowners/throats. I see it as the opposite. Never seen bills or laws making ranchers/landowners do anything for the public. Its always more for the private. With such terrible bills trying to be past in favor of landowners/ranchers, its simple the public should spearhead targeting grazing on public and tax money to millionaire ranchers/landowners. Level the playing field.

I a trump guy but didnt vote for GG. Seen all this bs coming.

 

[Eric Albus]

This is true. It’s also proof that the Republican Party of MT has been overtaken by hardcore liberals who can’t look past their biases, individual ideologies, and “I want the world to run my way”emotions to pass legislation that fixes problems instead of just benefiting their donors.

“Conservative ” is not an adjective that the sponsors of several of these bills can claim as their political identity.

No argument from me on this.

 

[Eric Albus]

Eric albus you are the one that has stated several times in multiple threads that the public is always trying to ram things down landowners/throats. I see it as the opposite. Never seen bills or laws making ranchers/landowners do anything for the public. Its always more for the private. With such terrible bills trying to be past in favor of landowners/ranchers, its simple the public should spearhead targeting grazing on public and tax money to millionaire ranchers/landowners. Level the playing field.

I a trump guy but didnt vote for GG. Seen all this bs coming.

The easiest one that comes to mind is giving bison “free roaming” status.
We can both sit and cite instances of injustice from both sides, and accomplish nothing.
The subject at hand has become derailed once again.

 

[Straight Arrow]

... giving bison “free roaming” status.

That is a BS mythical red herring consistently hollered up to create a fear of bison ruination of private lands. No matter what bison as wildlife or "free roaming" status, there will never be bison roaming rampant on private lands. Even on public tracts such as National Bison Range, and others, they are constrained. Bison "free roam" on the Flying D pastures and the problems for neighboring private lands, many with wheat, barley, and other crops are negligible. So your easiest example is a farce.

 

[Eric Albus]

Tell everyone who borders the APR that it’s a farce, especially when just a few years ago FWP was all for letting the APR have free roaming bison.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Tell everyone who borders the APR that it’s a farce, especially when just a few years ago FWP was all for letting the APR have free roaming bison.

The APR does have free roaming bison, albeit not "free" to roam neighbors' lands. Tell us about the problems which ensued.

Were there the greatly feared impregnating of prize angus cows by rampaging raping bison bulls? Have there been wide swaths of cash crops destroyed by stampeding herds of bison? Have the neighbors' fences been destroyed? Short answer; NO! The farce is as stinky and messy as a fresh cow pie, but much less than real.

 

[antlerradar]

Had a neighbor who had less than a dozen bison one time. He never could keep them on his side of the fence. Didn't have any issues with raping bulls, but crop damage and destroyed fences was the norm. He finally got tired of trying to chase them down and got rid of them.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Had a neighbor who had less than a dozen bison one time. He never could keep them on his side of the fence. Didn't have any issues with raping bulls, but crop damage and destroyed fences was the norm. He finally got tired of trying to chase them down and got rid of them.

Not the case with the thousands of bison on the Flying D and Snowcrest Ranches.

There's serious bison managers ... then there's hobbyists.

 

[antlerradar]

I haven't been around Turner's operations so this is just a guess that he has near 24/7 surveillance and other expensive tactics to keep his bison on his property. If your are a billionaire and can afford this you can be a serious bison rancher.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I haven't been around Turner's operations so this is just a guess that he has near 24/7 surveillance and other expensive tactics to keep his bison on his property. If your are a billionaire and can afford this you can be a serious bison rancher.

False; no expensive tactics. A good effective fencing system (albeit fences in certain areas are higher than standard) and natural rotation of herds to various very large areas keep the bison on good feed and content critters.

It seems the false narrative is of bison herds stampeding across the prairie, trampling everything in their way. The containment, pasturing, and behavior is really no different from cattle. After all, they both are bovine. Do you hear of neighbors of cattle ranches wringing their hands and worrying about angus or Hereford bulls being a scourge of the prairie?
The bison paranoia is a farce.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Tell everyone who borders the APR that it’s a farce, especially when just a few years ago FWP was all for letting the APR have free roaming bison.

Lol.

APR does not have "free roaming bison." They have livestock bison that are managed loosely, to fit the lands that they are in. They're tested, vaccinated & are far more likely to be disease free than the livestock surrounding them.

FWP has never been in favor of wild bison unless there was significant local buy-in. Read the EIS that they put out and that becomes remarkably clear. It lays out how a wild bison herd could be started, but does not do anything to advance the cause, which was a major disappointment to the bison advocates who had been pushing FWP to get moving on a wild herd since the Schweitzer administration. So, after 16 years of fear-mongering about wild bison, there are still no wild bison herds in MT, and in fact, the legislature has now made it so that NO wild bison exist in Montana (Say goodbye to the Yellowstone Bison hunt, btw). The efforts of the Legislature, btw, make it easier to get that listing under the ESA that some of the more extreme groups want, in order to force reintroduction, rather than the measured approach other groups want, which involves significant local input & decision making.

As for the law relative to wild bison, it is critical that folks understand that those animals would be managed unlike any other large ungulate/herbivore. The number of safeguards for landowners, crop producers & livestock owners is beyond anything that has been allowed so far, including setting up a damage payment system, allowing for the taking of wild bison outside of designated conservation areas & the unprecedented allowance that a landowner can say "NO bison on my land" unlike every other species of wildlife in Montana.

 

[OntarioHunter]

False; no expensive tactics. A good effective fencing system (albeit fences in certain areas are higher than standard) and natural rotation of herds to various very large areas keep the bison on good feed and content critters.

It seems the false narrative is of bison herds stampeding across the prairie, trampling everything in their way. The containment, pasturing, and behavior is really no different from cattle. After all, they both are bovine. Do you hear of neighbors of cattle ranches wringing their hands and worrying about angus or Hereford bulls being a scourge of the prairie?
The bison paranoia is a farce.

I have to agree. Anyone who drives Hwy 93 south to Missoula can take a gander at the fences on the National Bison Range at Moise. As I recall they have good fences but not anything extraordinary.